SSF should be more rewarding to play. I'm not a masochist for pete sakes...

"

Valsacar#0268 schrieb:

You keep talking about how GGG designed SSF... I think that's the part you're missing, they never designed SSF. SSF was created by the PLAYERS who wanted a more CHALLENGING experience. GGG later added it as an official, OPTIONAL CHALLENGE, mode long after players had designed it and were playing it with self-imposed restrictions.

I agree to the extent that players self-imposed an unofficial SSF. Also I am one of those players then technically. I avoided trade and did the whole SSF... Although it was GGG who officially implemented SSF into the game.

Gotta remember SSF is essentially those people who enjoy singleplayer-isk games. There are people who play MMOs as if they were a singleplayer game; case and point PoE, WoW, GW2... I even played a lot of GW2 as a solo before joining a guild briefly. Eventually got into late-game LFG gold making runs. You always come across posts about but can this be played solo or how much content can solo players participate in...

There is a reason D2/D2R still has a massive playerbase for how old the game is 20+ years old! A game that has holy grail runs for pete sakes haha. You ever hear about PoE players doing holy grail runs, no. I'm sure they exist but nothing compared to D2. All you hear from PoE players is MB + HH.

I feel people have mixed pride with the true essence of SSF. Being SSF does have that I did it on my own feel but it's the joy of discovery and building your character on your own that makes SSF enjoyable. If the whole point of playing SSF was so you could stroke your ego, that's pretty pathetic don't you think.

I am not saying the current SSF community can't enjoy this iteration of SSF. Although, I am pointing out a flaw in the very design that was not created by players. GGG designed the game to eventually balance heavily around a trade-driven economy. They made no effort to balance SSF around a self-driven economy.

As I said to another, point out that I am wrong about the logic. Show me that SSF is balanced and respects a players time around a self-driven economy... Show me that and I will admit I am wrong. I am saying people don't enjoy it but I know there are plenty who wish like myself it was more balanced around a self-driven economy that "respected" a players time.

To me it seems that GGG has invested quite a lot by now into balancing the game in a way that encourages trade; this seems like an essential design component. If trade didn't exist, PoE1 and 2 would prolly had half fewer players.

That being said, obviously a lot of players enjoy SSF, and their enjoyment should be, somehow, accounted for too.

One thing I've often thought about that the central but still "basic" crafting stuff like chaos orbs and orbs of annulment and fracturing orbs and such should drop a lot more. I think I've had exactly 2 orbs of annulment drop over my ~100 hours playing HC this league. Which is just so low that I haven't even considered using them myself.

In my opinion, the fact that a lot of crafting currency is essentially reserved for players who grind hard over many hours a day is doing a disservice not only to SSF players, but also to players who might like to craft more themselves etc, but just don't have the grinding mindset or the skill or the hours available to them.

At the same I understand that the very serious players also need catering to, and I'm OK with the most exquisite crafting currencies remaining as rare as they now are.

"

xenigmatica#6388 schrieb:

Dont like ssf, go back to trade whats the deal?

To respond to xenigmatica#6388

This again completely misses the point of what I am saying. I do play trade-league and I don't expect PoE1 to change anything. Although this is the EA feedback area. I said it once I'll say it again it amazes me that people don't understand this.

From my understanding GGG has openly talked about designing PoE2 to be more friendly to new players. As to not repeat mistakes in PoE1 but keeping much of that depth they still had.

So being that PoE2 is not meant to be your PoE1 migration. It is supposed to be easier for newer players to get into but retain much of that depth.

I want changes in SSF, yes. DO I think GGG will change things, most likely not. Although unlike PoE1, Poe2 is a fresh slate and it is meant to not repeat the same mistakes as PoE1. There is an opportunity in PoE2 to genuinely make SSF be balanced around a self-driven economy.

The mentality of well just don't play it... Say they change things by some miracle. Should I say well if you don't like it just go play PoE1's SSF what's the big deal... Well it'd be me completely overlooking why you enjoy PoE2 or SSF for instance.

I also have no issues with you enjoying the current iteration of SSF. I wouldn't be apposed to a separate SSF non-league mode that allowed players to adjust difficulty scaling's. I'd participate in league then go into non-league to enjoy that SSF.

Saying just play trade league is not a solution and it completely overlooks everything. It's like someone pointing out a flaw in a system and the response they get is, "...and". There is no value in that kind of response.

"

xenigmatica#6388 schrieb:

It's really that simple.

If you don't like the speed in which loot is acquired in the mode, there's a button at character selection to fix it. There's the door.

Nobody is forcing them to play the mode, and ever since poe1 implemented it, it was clear what ssf style is here: No party, no trade, same game.

If the speed of loot acquisition is not to their tastes, if they feel like their "time is not being respected", quit. Go to trade. Get your loot faster. Be happy there.

Why do we need to change the mode you don't enjoy being in, when the main issue, the speed of loot acquisition is already solved? Get it in trade.

Similar to above you are missing my point entirely, I clarified specifically to you what I was talking about and why I made this post. Now I also asked if you could prove or disprove things in regards to SSF and a self-driven or trade-driven economy. You haven't cause you can't. Now I also clarified that at the end of the day GGG can do as they please and I specified that I agree and this is why I play Trade leagues as not to waste my time. Again clarifying why you were missing the point of what I was saying. Both of you.

"

Xzorn#7046 schrieb:

Man. I really wish people would stop talking about D2. Esp D2R which is the worse version.

Specifically I'm talking about Patch 1.10 which was adopted by D2R. This was the patch that introduced Skill Synergy one-button builds reinforced by harder enemies due to that shift in extra damage of one type. To this day my Diablo 2 remains v1.09 because it's simply better.

Before that patch you could alternate Chain Lightning, Frozen Orb, Firewall perfectly fine. You could also do Blizzard, Meteor Thunderstorm and Hydra. It's comically close to what GGG is trying to do with PoE2 but forcing it instead of letting us pick skills that simply work well together.

______________________________________________________________

As for SSF. They're never going to do it because many players, including myself would rather play with better drops and no trade. That would split their community too much. It's bad on purpose.

When PoE1 first started it had a fairly healthy HC community. They killed it on purpose.
We're talking about a company that can't even reasonably balance skills at this point.

You think they're going to waste time working on multiple game mode balance too?

I get it, but PoE was in many ways a spiritual successor to D2(good one or bad one is another story XD). Now whether D2 or D2R did certain things poorly via updates to the game or things you don't enjoy very much. I respect that and won't argue with you on that.

Although my main use of D2 was to point out how for over 20+ years we have create ARPGs to largely focus on a self-driven economy first trade-economy second. Which has enabled things like a holy grail or offline mode to be functional; Especially with the offline difficulty scaling... Maybe D2 does trade poorly but that's for another discussion hehe.

As for why they won't change things, I agree. Although call it copium but with PoE2 being this fresh slate and they said it was to help newer players get into PoE. I am just trying my luck right. Even if it's a 0.0001% chance at least I can say I tried, ya know.

but you are right. This is mostly copium haha

If some kind of high drop rate SSF where you can't migrate to trade existed I'd play it. They can also keep the current miserly SSF for the people that like it.

I'm more of a casual gamer, and for me the trading system just kills the game. It's EXTREMELY unbalanced of what can I get from the market vs what I find or craft spending the same amount of currency. And the problem the items found on the market just broke the game, it becomes orders magnitude easier for me. I like the challenge but not at hardcore level. I generally finish the entire campaign in most cases with only 2 items if not one per category (ignoring the first filler ones). That's how rare a good drop presents itself, and not for lack of trying(I spend most of my exalts). The second I touch the market the game changes. My damage and defense skyrockets. This is generally done when I get to endgame. After that everything boils down to farm currency and by new stuff and I get bored like 2-4 days. Being a casual gamer I will never get to extremely high level of maps and builds and farm like crazy and sell shit load of stuffs.
That's why I would have enjoyed the SSF mode with a little better crafting drops. I'm perfectly ok to lock that account mode. Make a huge warning I don't care, I don't want a bigger challenge, I just want a more enjoyable game for me.

For me, and I repeat for me, the trading system it sucks out a lot of enjoyment, the moment I touch it I can't be happy for my loot, for my craft, I can never be hardcore enough to compete with the market.

It's should be a really easy mode to implement.
PLEASE JUST LET TRY IT OUT GGG.

Thanks

"

tzaeru#0912 schrieb:

To me it seems that GGG has invested quite a lot by now into balancing the game in a way that encourages trade; this seems like an essential design component. If trade didn't exist, PoE1 and 2 would prolly had half fewer players.

That being said, obviously a lot of players enjoy SSF, and their enjoyment should be, somehow, accounted for too.

One thing I've often thought about that the central but still "basic" crafting stuff like chaos orbs and orbs of annulment and fracturing orbs and such should drop a lot more. I think I've had exactly 2 orbs of annulment drop over my ~100 hours playing HC this league. Which is just so low that I haven't even considered using them myself.

In my opinion, the fact that a lot of crafting currency is essentially reserved for players who grind hard over many hours a day is doing a disservice not only to SSF players, but also to players who might like to craft more themselves etc, but just don't have the grinding mindset or the skill or the hours available to them.

At the same I understand that the very serious players also need catering to, and I'm OK with the most exquisite crafting currencies remaining as rare as they now are.

Thank you and it was beautifully put, in my opinion. I agree with practically everything you are saying. I am 100% in copium but at least I put my two cents in and I can say I tried lol.

I think a trade-driven economy was the smartest thing for GGG to do and it clearly pays of like you said. Others have pointed out that GGG most likely intentionally keeps these modes unbalanced in that regard to encourage players to stick with trade-league. The more I think about it, the more I think they are right.

I also wouldn't want those who enjoy the current iteration of SSF to have that taken away but as you said as well regarding time... It's clear to me that there are others who would play SSF but opt out similar to I due to it feeling a bit too punishing or slow.

"

vezon#2373 schrieb:

I'm more of a casual gamer, and for me the trading system just kills the game. It's EXTREMELY unbalanced of what can I get from the market vs what I find or craft spending the same amount of currency. And the problem the items found on the market just broke the game, it becomes orders magnitude easier for me. I like the challenge but not at hardcore level. I generally finish the entire campaign in most cases with only 2 items if not one per category (ignoring the first filler ones). That's how rare a good drop presents itself, and not for lack of trying(I spend most of my exalts). The second I touch the market the game changes. My damage and defense skyrockets. This is generally done when I get to endgame. After that everything boils down to farm currency and by new stuff and I get bored like 2-4 days. Being a casual gamer I will never get to extremely high level of maps and builds and farm like crazy and sell shit load of stuffs.
That's why I would have enjoyed the SSF mode with a little better crafting drops. I'm perfectly ok to lock that account mode. Make a huge warning I don't care, I don't want a bigger challenge, I just want a more enjoyable game for me.

For me, and I repeat for me, the trading system it sucks out a lot of enjoyment, the moment I touch it I can't be happy for my loot, for my craft, I can never be hardcore enough to compete with the market.

It's should be a really easy mode to implement.
PLEASE JUST LET TRY IT OUT GGG.

Thanks

IMO the reason they won't do it is - presumably - a large portion of their revenue comes from stash tabs. If you don't need to trade to get currency, you won't need to pick up nearly as much stuff, and you won't need nearly as many tabs. You also won't need to buy any async trade tabs.

This is a cynical take but I don't see how it can't affect their decision to some degree. Keeping SSF as an extreme challenge (always open to migrating to trade league so they can entice you to buy tabs) seems to be their angle.

"

vezon#2373 schrieb:

I'm more of a casual gamer, and for me the trading system just kills the game. It's EXTREMELY unbalanced of what can I get from the market vs what I find or craft spending the same amount of currency. And the problem the items found on the market just broke the game, it becomes orders magnitude easier for me. I like the challenge but not at hardcore level. I generally finish the entire campaign in most cases with only 2 items if not one per category (ignoring the first filler ones). That's how rare a good drop presents itself, and not for lack of trying(I spend most of my exalts). The second I touch the market the game changes. My damage and defense skyrockets. This is generally done when I get to endgame. After that everything boils down to farm currency and by new stuff and I get bored like 2-4 days. Being a casual gamer I will never get to extremely high level of maps and builds and farm like crazy and sell shit load of stuffs.
That's why I would have enjoyed the SSF mode with a little better crafting drops. I'm perfectly ok to lock that account mode. Make a huge warning I don't care, I don't want a bigger challenge, I just want a more enjoyable game for me.

For me, and I repeat for me, the trading system it sucks out a lot of enjoyment, the moment I touch it I can't be happy for my loot, for my craft, I can never be hardcore enough to compete with the market.

It's should be a really easy mode to implement.
PLEASE JUST LET TRY IT OUT GGG.

Thanks

"

Weaver#3527 schrieb:

If some kind of high drop rate SSF where you can't migrate to trade existed I'd play it. They can also keep the current miserly SSF for the people that like it.

I feel the same way in regards to both of you. I don't hate the trade-league but I definitely enjoy SSF a lot more. I am currently sitting at 103divs and I have probably farmed a few hundred div at this point. My build just needs those minor tweaks and I just don't care cause it's good enough for most content. Hence I would enjoy that SSF but not to that hardcore degree as you said.

"

Weaver#3527 schrieb:

IMO the reason they'll won't do it is - presumably - a large portion of their revenue comes from stash tabs... [Edited] to match your current...

I also think you among a few others are on to something with this. That GGG does want more players than not to participate in trade league to encourage trade and the purchase of mtx...


Overall I would be happy even if there was an SSF mode that was non-league based. We got to change using a slider the drop rates. It could go negative or positive. So for more HC players they could do like -100% drop rates and for others who want the opposite we could do like 350% for all anyone cares lol. Cause at the end of the day it's just about us, right. Unlike a trade league yours or my progression doesn't impact each other. So who cares right. Unless you care about ladder stuff then... hehe

I get that this is EA, and this is the right place for feedback. But man, saying they should change a core foundation of a successful game feels like stretching what feedback is to me haha.