SSF should be more rewarding to play. I'm not a masochist for pete sakes...

Feel free to read past the TLDR but if you don't wish to read it all this should give you the jest of what I am trying to convey.

[EDIT]
I recommend for anyone who feels similarly to me. That you enjoy SSF but are turned off from how SSF feels like in PoE2. Buy or reinstall D2/D2R. D2 has some overhaul mods that allow for that left-click to force move last I remember. Although after a few hours. D2R not having lmb on force move is okay.

D2R has some mods as well just not as deep as D2. Overall I forgot just how much fun it is. So I'd say do trade-league... have your fill. Then hop onto D2/D2R once you are done and enjoy...

If PoE2 is your first ARPG, I strongly recommend you at-minimum check out some D2R offline(ssf essentially) videos. As well the overhaul mods for D2 for example. Graphics are a bit dated but don't let that fool you. I am having an absolute blast Offline right now. So much so that is why I am making this edit...
[/EDIT]

TLDR:

GGG has led PoE to be a trade-driven economy. Although the jest of what I am saying is that SSF is a self-driven economy. Rationally speaking the reason why a game like D2/D2R has no issues in an offline mode. Largely is due to the foundation of the game revolving around a self-driven economy with trade being secondary. I'd argue this is why the vast majority of ARPGs to single-player games are successful despite having an online feature for trading or co-op loot based gameplay.

My point, being that GGG should of acknowledged that the core foundation of their standard league directly contradicts an SSF mode. In implementing this mode without balancing it to fit a genuine self-driven economy. Despite being enjoyable for some it largely is flawed and does not respect the players time-investment.

Hence why I wish PoE2 had vendor recipes similar to PoE1 or a crafting bench to enable less rng and better target farming. In my opinion GGG looked at resource allocation and said it was too much work to balance SSF but they wanted to satisfy that margin of the community so they released it as is with a loot system that still revolves around a trade-economy. Then suggested it was their intention to make it more difficult, I don't buy that though. I think it was just easier for them. I also don't blame them for doing this if my opinion is correct cause that's what logically make sense from a business stand point.

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When I played D2R (Diablo 2 Resurrected) I never feel the need to trade. Playing SSF is the best and most fun I have ever had in an ARPG. I never got to super endgame kind of stuff but I also never felt compelled to look up build guides.

Where as in PoE I have tried modern SSF and it's fun at first but quickly falls off towards the endgame. PoE made a choice to be a economy-trade based ARPG. So if you are going to have SSF; Naturally speaking you have to make adjustments to fit an SSF-mode. Although that really never happened. In fact it only got worse and worse.

If you think SSF is "amazing" or it's supposed to be this way. Then I hate the break it to you. You probably haven't played SSF way back when PoE didn't even have mapping let alone 10 Acts. I remember when I was farming Act 4 "Dried Lake" for hours just doing the loop for those who remember. Also there were only 4 acts in the game so that was pretty much some of the highest content. Cause you were looking for the 6 socket gear and then there were a few other vendor crafts to get currency as well... So there was a reliable way in SSF way back to get the currency you desired. I remember doing this SSF and it was fun and felt rewarding despite being more repetitive than mapping. Pop on music farm magic + rare (specific ilvl for craft) + six socket gear. Heck I didn't even have to follow a build guide. I just had fun playing around with a cyclone build. I still remember the first ever proper build I played was a "Scion Facebreaker Smite + Shield build". For those who don't know Facebreaker was the OG "Hollow Palm" essentially.

Although as power creep rose with the introduction of mapping as well. Nerfs over the years accumulated as groups found ways to print currency and abuse league mechanics. I don't blame them cause heck it's not a crime for enjoying a game with friends and having fun optimizing the living hell out of the game. Although with every nerf and change to the game it would make SSF far less enjoyable and forced me to just stick to trade league.

I'm not the biggest fan of trade league. I just play it because in order to genuinely enjoy the endgame properly without wasting so much time grinding for practically zero currency. At least in PoE1 I could farm currency via rares + ilvl but in PoE2 say good bye to that lol. That is the biggest complaint I have. Reward ratio to time investment is pathetic and logically no worth it. If you aren't getting paid (content creator...) then you are genuinely wasting your free gaming time for no good reason. If the ego of well I did it on my own is what you are going for. Then the fool has never been a greater then now. Cause at this point. It'd be better to play standard, restrict yourself to only currency exchange and selling gear. Then crafting everything yourself. That's genuinely the only way you can play the closest to a proper SSF feeling. Anything else is just a waste of your time.

Not saying you can't participate in SSF but logically + rationally it is a genuine waste of time. But if you want to waste your free time playing a pathetically crafted rng based unrewarding SSF. Be my guest, you do you!

SSF should either up the drop rate of currency or add alternative ways to craft exalts or chaos. For example if you follow this link https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Vendor_recipe_system you will see all the vendor recipes we got in PoE1. My favourite of course being the chaos orb vendor recipe. It gave me a reason to pick up all the ilvl 60-74 gear I found. Even in standard league I would do this.

I'm sorry but when you look at all the vendor recipe options we had in PoE1. Like, I can't help but feel cheated in PoE2. Salvaged gear like rares gives regal "shards" like what. So much depth lost and if you think PoE1 was RNG based. PoE2 feels even worse in my opinion. Yes in regards to sockets I'll give a point to PoE2 but PoE1 felt so much better via the rng. Like you telling me using jeweller's orbs to reroll a six socket wasn't fun AND we even got some MTX so in a town literally others could watch you craft it. Heck you could straight up just force a craft this stuff onto your gear.

I COULD LITERALLY CRAFT MOVEMENT SPEED ONTO MY BOOTS!!!!! I COULD CRAFT AND CHANGE THE CRAFTED MODIFER IF I SO CHOOSE!!!!! LIKE come on people. Wanna tell me PoE2 is less RNG than PoE1.

I gave this 0.4 league a go and guess what. I'm bored. I have farmed 200+ divs in total. I got more than enough left over. I have my character lv95 capable of doing majority of content. If you want you can check it out on PoEninja https://poe.ninja/poe2/profile/SaintLessLegend-6078/character/Navoryn Says I am missing +10% lightning res but at this point I am too lazy to go back and get it lol. Probably get it later.

...but I have done most things and I just feel like that's it. In PoE1 I have the progression of trying to unlock at minimum the t1 outfit from the league. In PoE2 there is no incentive. It's why I was wanting to try SSF again because in standard I feel compelled to horde my divs but in SSF mentally there is no reason. I'd have more incentive to continue crafting for myself etc... and sorry I'm not that into theory crafting that I want to "sit" in my hideout like a no life and craft for others, no offence but no thanks.

This straight up has me reinstalling D2 resurrected cause playing SSF in that game was so much more enjoyable. Heck maybe I gotta return to PoE1, haven't played in like a year or two so. Just disappointed. I thought with PoE2 GGG would do SSF right this time, keep it separate from the Standard influences. Although it just feels like PoE1 all over again ruining SSF and making it a minority of masochistic players who have created this meme of "look at me now" kind of stuff.

Like does anyone remember when you played zombies in BO1 on Five and just saw how far you could get by doing the glitch to get on the table for instance. Maybe just played with friends and working together to formulate plans from prior failed experiences. Discovering things without having to watch a youtube guide... That's what I miss. I miss the OG SSF the OG do it yourself and discover things yourself days. Now you are genuinely punished and I mean really freaken punished hard just for wanting to play casually and have fun.

Look I'd be happy if we just got a casual SSF mode. I don't care if it's outside league! Just something that actually respects my time investment as a human being jesus christ. The whole brain rot of these games are for masochists is so old I mean I hear that cringe and I wonder if you are still playing Roblox or something at that point. Like grow up (you know who you are).

"

SaintLessLegend#6078 schrieb:

So if you are going to have SSF; Naturally speaking you have to make adjustments to fit an SSF-mode. Although that really never happened.

The challenge modes were implemented to, well, increase the challenge - they're essentially just for bragging rights. Calling for SSF to "up the drop rate of currency or add alternative ways to craft exalts or chaos" is a bit like calling for Hardcore to "reduce the damage of bosses or add anti-death passives to the skill tree". It misses the point - and on a fundamental level.

"

SaintLessLegend#6078 schrieb:

If you think SSF is "amazing" or it's supposed to be this way. Then I hate the break it to you. You probably haven't played SSF way back when PoE didn't even have mapping let alone 10 Acts. I remember when I was farming Act 4 "Dried Lake" for hours just doing the loop for those who remember.

• Maps were first implemented in July 2012.
• SSF was first implemented in March 2017.
• FoO was officially released in August 2017 (beta started in June).

You didn't play a GGG-implemented SSF mode prior to the implementation of Maps; and if you did indeed play it prior to the release of Acts 5 through 10 inclusive, you did it for a very short period of time while they had all hands on finishing up the rest of the campaign.

Attempts at drawing inferences regarding GGG's philiosophy aren't particularly compelling when they 1) contradict what GGG have themselves stated to be their philiosophy, and, 2) are seemingly based on misremembered gaming sessions from back in the day.

"

Sarno#0493 schrieb:

"

SaintLessLegend#6078 schrieb:

So if you are going to have SSF; Naturally speaking you have to make adjustments to fit an SSF-mode. Although that really never happened.

The challenge modes were implemented to, well, increase the challenge - they're essentially just for bragging rights. Calling for SSF to "up the drop rate of currency or add alternative ways to craft exalts or chaos" is a bit like calling for Hardcore to "reduce the damage of bosses or add anti-death passives to the skill tree". It misses the point - and on a fundamental level.

"

SaintLessLegend#6078 schrieb:

If you think SSF is "amazing" or it's supposed to be this way. Then I hate the break it to you. You probably haven't played SSF way back when PoE didn't even have mapping let alone 10 Acts. I remember when I was farming Act 4 "Dried Lake" for hours just doing the loop for those who remember.

• Maps were first implemented in July 2012.
• SSF was first implemented in March 2017.
• FoO was officially released in August 2017 (beta started in June).

You didn't play a GGG-implemented SSF mode prior to the implementation of Maps; and if you did indeed play it prior to the release of Acts 5 through 10 inclusive, you did it for a very short period of time while they had all hands on finishing up the rest of the campaign.

Attempts at drawing inferences regarding GGG's philiosophy aren't particularly compelling when they 1) contradict what GGG have themselves stated to be their philiosophy, and, 2) are seemingly based on misremembered gaming sessions from back in the day.

Many people dont paly SSF because of challenge they play SSF because hey are annoyed by trade.

I can assure you that SSF doesn't need any adjustments, you have to take it slow, ofc not having a good build will slow your progress even more.

Creating an SFF character is masochism but not quite as much as hardcore SFF.

You knew what you were signing up for, drops are always trash regardless of rarity % it feels like, you have to get really lucky to have an item worth modifying and crafting in general isn't as good or easy as last season.

I have a feeling 0.3's generosity and easy crafting reset your loot expectations and you're disappointed crafting isn't as good as last patch which is perfectly understandable.

"

Sarno#0493 schrieb:

• Maps were first implemented in July 2012.
• SSF was first implemented in March 2017.
• FoO was officially released in August 2017 (beta started in June).

Different account?

"

SaintLessLegend#6078 schrieb:

Joined: Jan 2, 2019

Did anyone read that? If yes may I ask for tldr please?

Instead of replying one post at a time I am just slapping them all into one but you can find your response via the Response to - "----"

Response to - Sakanabi#6664

"

Sakanabi#6664 schrieb:

Did anyone read that? If yes may I ask for tldr please?

Ya I read it, here is the tldr:

Why are you here? Cause this is literally the "EA Feedback" forum. I'm allowed to have my opinion and if others disagree, cool. The ability to speak freely is to be challenged and to challenge those ideas as well. If I am wrong I'll admit that. Need to prove me wrong first not just say wrong, end of story lol.

So I have more respect for the people who actually disagree with me but you... what are you doing here even? If you had no contribution move on... There is your tldr.



Response to - Sarno#0493

"

Sarno#0493 schrieb:

The challenge modes were implemented to, well, increase the challenge - they're essentially just for bragging rights. Calling for SSF to "up the drop rate of currency or add alternative ways to craft exalts or chaos" is a bit like calling for Hardcore to "reduce the damage of bosses or add anti-death passives to the skill tree". It misses the point - and on a fundamental level.

I've heard this before and it's a flawed logic. Calling for SSF to be rebalanced is not calling for Hardcore to reduce damage on bosses or add anti-death... It's really not.

It's actually in the name, Solo-Self-Found is saying I want to do it on my own. Be it for bragging rights or just because you don't want to participate in a economy driven game-mode. Some people prefer single players others prefer mmos. SSF doesn't mean bragging rights. It also doesn't mean "Hardcore".

It's important not to apply your personal interpretations to wording and play with the English language to make connections that don't exist. If you said calling for HCSSF to be rebalanced is like calling for HC to be rebalanced... I would agree with you because that makes sense. Saying SSF being rebalanced is like HC being rebalanced... where do you make that connection? Like where is the bridge? There is none, you just use HC and SSF "being more challenging" as an excuse to use an irrational comparison.

"

Sarno#0493 schrieb:

Maps were first implemented in July 2012.
SSF was first implemented in March 2017.
FoO was officially released in August 2017 (beta started in June).

You didn't play a GGG-implemented SSF mode prior to the implementation of Maps; and if you did indeed play it prior to the release of Acts 5 through 10 inclusive, you did it for a very short period of time while they had all hands on finishing up the rest of the campaign.

Mate, this was so many years ago lol. Quoting me on that is such a petty thing haha. Although ya you are right, there were maps I bloody forgot about that. It's slowly coming back to me that I simply chose to farm the Dried lake because I wasn't into maps as much. Like I said this was a awhile ago it's foggy in my mind. Although I do remember I did things on my own; Essentially SSF. Sure there wasn't an official SSF at the time but touché. Still it was more SSF friendly then how it is now. What is the point your trying to make though? If it was oh you didn't play SSF so my point is invalid then congrats you missed the whole point of my argument in entirety...

Not trying to be rude man. You are right and it has been awhile but my mistake on the SSF thing like over a decade ago lol but still I could of fact checked myself. Although I really don't get the correlations you are making and how they disprove what I am saying. If you want I welcome further scrutiny of my take but just don't use comparisons like HC to SSF cause I will easily tear those arguments apart with simple logic. Hit me with the good stuff man! :P



Response to -xjjanie#4242

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xjjanie#4242 schrieb:

Different account?

Yep, this isn't my first account. I originally did play the beta but lost interest. I'd come back I think when there was only around 2-3 Acts. Been so long man and that account, I don't even know if I still have it somewhere as I shifted accounts due to smurfing on CSGO. Eventually I ended up making this my main account. I might have it though which would be cool but I put so much money into this account no point in going back hahaha you feel me. Although I don't blame you for seeing the 2019 on this account and being like hmmm. Can you blame me for not remembering though lmao. ;)



Response to - Warrax

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Warrax#2850 schrieb:

I can assure you that SSF doesn't need any adjustments, you have to take it slow, ofc not having a good build will slow your progress even more.

I agree with you to an extent. I don't care for SSF to be 1:1 with standard right. Although, if you remember in PoE1 we had options for farming currencies through vendor recipes. Like I could get chaos or regal or cartographer chisels etc... So many options ya know. Then in PoE2 it's like all that is gone. That is one of my favourite things about SSF in PoE1 is the ability to actually farm most of the currency through vendor crafts... It eliminated or cushioned the MF effect on currency drops.

Mate if they kept drop rates exactly as they were but simply added like the chaos orb vendor recipe. I would play SSF in PoE2 but right now it just feels like an RNG mess. I don't expect Divines to be handed on a silver platter ya know but like in PoE1 remember we have the crafting bench and so many ways and I get PoE2 is fresh to the table but we could at least have some proper vendor recipes. It is so sad to me that we don't really have this anymore.



Response to - Anal_Rek#2753 (nice name XD)

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Anal_Rek#2753 schrieb:

Creating an SFF character is masochism but not quite as much as hardcore SFF.

You knew what you were signing up for, drops are always trash regardless of rarity % it feels like, you have to get really lucky to have an item worth modifying and crafting in general isn't as good or easy as last season.

I have a feeling 0.3's generosity and easy crafting reset your loot expectations and you're disappointed crafting isn't as good as last patch which is perfectly understandable.

I agree SSF character is masochistic these days but it wasn't always this way in my experience. It used to just be a bit more challenge but a fun challenge. Now it feels like you have to have a fetish for suffering and if you don't you ain't a cool kid... Not a big fan of this mentality.

Also I skipped leagues 0.2 and 0.3 for clarification. I was there at 0.1 launch day though and then I came back in 0.4 here. So don't get me wrong I think there is a lot of cool stuff this league. I am not bashing on like classes or Acts. I think a lot of cool stuff has arrived, I got to try the Ritualist and I played around with the wyvern, werewolf and bear stuff but ironically the very thing I was most excited for about PoE2 (shapeshifting) was meh to me. Not bad but just not my cup of tea the way they did it ya know.

I agree with the response above yours in that you should take it slow right. In trade league mate I have over 1.5k hours in PoE now. I consider myself casual compared to the more hardcore players but I've been around the block enough that I am familiar with the stuff. I have my baby verdant mageblood I got from a reliquary drop. It's ma baby and I will cherish it forever! I've done my mavens and invitations. Hell My fav was farming polaric inv... Like ya know what I mean. So at this point I've rushed to endgame and I feel bored. I got my char, I got ~60+ divs sitting in my stash and I feel like meh what now.

Why I wish SSF was more enjoyable for a player like me. Cause it would force me to slow down and it is difficult not to take advantage or be tempted in a trade league to participate in it. I am a loot goblin with ADHD man... Self moderating in a trade league is like asking a stock broker to not make any trades and simply observe the market lol.

Also honestly I reinstalled D2R it's launching as I type hehe. So imma just have fun and scratch my SSF itch there lol. Sucks no proper left click to force move but whatever I am desperate for that SSF experience!

"

SaintLessLegend#6078 schrieb:

It's important not to apply your personal interpretations to wording and play with the English language to make connections that don't exist. If you said calling for HCSSF to be rebalanced is like calling for HC to be rebalanced... I would agree with you because that makes sense. Saying SSF being rebalanced is like HC being rebalanced... where do you make that connection? Like where is the bridge? There is none, you just use HC and SSF "being more challenging" as an excuse to use an irrational comparison.

I have no idea why you wrote an entire paragraph about a strawman argument.

I never once asserted that an aspect of language likens the two.

I said both SSF and Hardcore are challenge modes (which is true), and that GGG has in the past stated that a challenge mode will only ever increase the difficulty of the game (also true). In that context, I raised the prospect of a different challenge mode having crutch rules in place to ease their difficulty and why that would similarly be unacceptable to GGG given their stated objectives.

This is because the same logic underpins them both - the reason a Hardcore mode with cheat-death mechanics is unacceptable to GGG is the same reason an SSF mode with boosted drop rates of some or all items is unacceptable to GGG. They both violate the principle of GGG's that challenge modes only ever make things harder. I have never raised linguistic factors in relation to this.

One of the reasons I went down this narrative path was your post, in part, relying on this;

"

SaintLessLegend#6078 schrieb:

If you think SSF is "amazing" or it's supposed to be this way. Then I hate the break it to you. You probably haven't played SSF way back when PoE didn't even have mapping let alone 10 Acts. I remember when I was farming Act 4 "Dried Lake" for hours just doing the loop for those who remember.

With your earlier post you had sought to argue from a position of authority based 1) on how things used to be "way back when", and, 2) that evidencing whether "it's supposed to be this way".

So, respectfully, no - I wasn't being "petty" when contradicting you on that point; I was analysing one of the core pillars of your entire argument, and pointing out that - respectfully - it isn't accurate.

I would further note that I am not even commenting on what I want for the game - or what I believe I might enjoy more. I'm just clarifying GGG's longstanding position in relation to challenge modes.

---

"

SaintLessLegend#6078 schrieb:

If you want I welcome further scrutiny of my take but just don't use comparisons like HC to SSF cause I will easily tear those arguments apart with simple logic. Hit me with the good stuff man! :P

You're welcome to try doing so for the first time if you would like to.

Just do me a favour and don't write additional entire paragraphs about strawman arguments next time. You're welcome to critique what I am saying (GGG only wants challenge modes to increase difficulty), but please do not waste my time putting words in my mouth ("It's important not to apply your personal interpretations to wording and play with the English language to make connections that don't exist.") I don't do that to you - I only engage with what you actually say.