SSF should be more rewarding to play. I'm not a masochist for pete sakes...

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Weaver#3527 schrieb:

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DreamAgain#4820 schrieb:

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SaintLessLegend#6078 schrieb:

the jest of what I am saying

Couldn't have put it better myself.



But seriously though.. as an ssf player myself, the idea that i should be "rewarded" for playing the mode makes little sense. I'm playing it for a harder experience. The whole damn point is to prevent me from getting every piece of gear I want and force me to use what I can find and scavenge. If I can just easily obtain everything myself then what the hell am I even on ssf for? Might as well just play trade and buy the items.

So in general, your entire complaint is the complete antithesis of what ssf is and who it's for. I'm sorry that you can't keep up with the crazy divine inflation, sound frustrating. But don't go try and ruin ssf just to fix whatever issue you have.

No one is suggesting this hypothetical SSF mode let you "just as easily obtain everything yourself". Even very SSF friendly ARPGs don't let you do that and it's never as easy as just typing in the item you want and trading for it.

Also no one wants to take away your miserly SSF experience since the new mode would obviously be locked and unable to transfer to trade.

What does any of that have to do with SSF. You want an ezmode setting is what you're asking for. You basically just want an offline mode where you can edit the parameters to your liking. You can't do that and then say "hey guys check it out im playing ssf!". To suggest this is to suggest that SSF players should be getting the same or similar experience as trade but just going about it a different way. Again, not the purpose of SSF.

But hey if GGG wants to implement an offline Ez/adjustable mode, I'm all for it what do I care. It will never happen though.

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SaintLessLegend#6078 schrieb:

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KaosuRyoko#1633 schrieb:

I just argue that from day 1 GGG has said they set out to make a ARPG with a player driven economy as the central pillar.

100% I see that, and I get it. GGG can do it as they wish right. I just wanted to put in my two-cents. I genuinely didn't expect this many people to even reply to my Post...

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There's also an argument to be made for longevity of enjoyment through the RNG and chase items. If you just 10x or 100x the drops people are going to be finishing and quitting that much quicker.

I agree with this, I would assume that's why a holy grail run is so much fun for some people. I wouldn't expect any things like 10x or 100x kind of stuff. Although I think it's completely viable for them to make a non-league iteration of SSF.

Hear me out and tell me what you think.

You got standard league + SSF. Nothing changes. Rewards and new league mechanic is locked behind that door.

Now in non-league you got the SSF window. You got HCSSF, Standard-SSF(same as league SSF) but now you have Custom-SSF.

IDEA 1: In custom mode you'll uniquely have access to a new slider feature. It's as easy as changing a loot filter or adjusting the volume and takes affect immediately. This slider goes from DEFAULT up to a limited #%.

IDEA 2: The custom mode acts similar to how we have a loot filter. Allowing us the players to genuinely create a Loot-drop-rate filter. Enabling us to make it as easy or difficult as we desire.

So if you are super HC in IDEA-2 you could make it so no fracturing, Divines, etc... can drop. Limiting you to the more basic currency. OR you could make it so only Divines dropped. Meaning you can't really craft but you have the ability to reroll the numbers on gear. Giving you that RNG feeling of is this loot I pick up any good. Then you could use the reforger to try and get better rolls.

Or maybe you love the gameplay loop and even the theory crafting of PoE but just genuinely have limited time to play. Maybe you are a parent or a College/Uni student but don't want to feel the stress of that time-investment...

This would still encourage players to play trade-league BUT now players after they get bored of trade league would have something to fall back on. In my opinion this would increase player retention and technically lead to higher probability of sales being made for longer. Just my opinion I can't predict the future lol.

It's a hot button topic that's been discussed to death and back about a hundred times. It always draws quite a bit of polarized perspectives.


I'm against literally any idea that creates a generally positive incentive to play something other than trade. There is no suggestion that includes any sort of loot buff or difficulty decrease slider that I ever see myself supporting. Not really a huge fan of PoE1 private leagues being allowed to add more difficulty either but at least that's generally a negative thing that isn't going to draw more than a few masochists with money to burn away from trade. Likewise, I'm against private leagues that allow alternate modes like Phrecia that people want (afaik they said they'd add as an option eventually, but I hope they backpedal that).

I can certainly feel for college students and gamer dads; however, I also don't believe that every game has to, or even can, cater to every player. Catering to the lowest common denominator the biggest driver in the enshittification of everything in modern society imo. I don't mean it to be an elitist or gatekeeper particularly, but maybe this game just isn't designed for them and maybe that's OK. Dark Souls isn't designed for people that aren't masochists, they're unapologetic about it, and it's genuinely an amazing series. Animal Crossing and Stardew Valley aren't designed for hardcore grinders or loot junkies, but they're great games. I think the games that are truly great are the ones that create a vision and set out to achieve it rather than trying to appeal to as many people as possible.


I am of course pretty biased, since I'm an economy player at heart. Because I'm an economy player and because the game is explicitly designed to enable players like me, these suggestions always feel like they're trying to take that away from me. I rarely think that's actually the intent, i just fully believe that pulling dev time into crafting this would be the death of trade completely. Even if it doesn't completely die, the smaller the player base gets, the more volatile and degraded the economy becomes. This is fairly easy to observe if you're playing in the Second Wind league - I've been watching Greater Exalts oscillate from 3 Ex to 20Ex at different points in the day, and Perfect waffle between 20Ex and 100Ex. I've made hundreds of exalts just by setting buy and sell orders at either end of those huge swings. The economy may lead to me migrating back out of the PL, we'll see.


To your other reply, I pretty much agree with all of it. I miss the crafting bench and really strongly dislike the sockets system in comparison. Having a vendor recipe for an all attribute amulet is an ok start, but reforging just feels vastly inferior to vendor recipes. Unfortunately they've been pretty adamant that the res swapping from Harvest is too strong so it seems unlikely that they'll add it into 2.

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DreamAgain#4820 schrieb:

...as an ssf player myself, the idea that i should be "rewarded" for playing the mode makes little sense. I'm playing it for a harder experience. The whole damn point is to prevent me from getting every piece of gear I want and force me to use what I can find and scavenge. If I can just easily obtain everything myself then what the hell am I even on ssf for? Might as well just play trade and buy the items.

In regards to obtaining gear. I agree with you. Although it's hard not to feel like something is missing when I used to use the vendor recipes for chaos... You got cartographer chisel recipes etc...

Although I think you are missing the point of my post. with being "rewarded" for playing that mode... or what is the point if it if you can easily obtain everything... That's not what I am implying by my post.

In fact if SSF was balanced around a self-driven economy. Then you'd literally just being playing a typical SSF, ya know. It wouldn't be "easier per se." It'd just be a normal balanced self-driven economy... Also if GGG actually did a self-driven economy for SSF initially and I had the same complaint... Ask yourself if you would have had the same response to me? If you would of still been playing the SSF mode and enjoying it to this day? Not I enjoy it how it is now, so of course I wouldn't enjoy it like that... (to clarify incase) I framed it intentionally to say you wouldn't of had the current engagement/experience you have had with this iteration of SSF in PoE.

Genuinely I think you would of still been playing/enjoying SSF and I truly believe you would of also felt as you did now about it; Had I the same complaints. That's my assumption though. If I am wrong then fair enough.

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So in general, your entire complaint is the complete antithesis of what ssf is and who it's for. I'm sorry that you can't keep up with the crazy divine inflation, sound frustrating. But don't go try and ruin ssf just to fix whatever issue you have.

If you are referring to GGG's interpretation/implementation of an SSF mode. I'd agree my complaint would be an antithesis. However I don't see that as a bad thing cause from my view I am pointing out a flaw in their design choice. I think it's important to bring that up, imo.

If you are referring to me having an antithesis to SSF itself; That is where I disagree. GGG can interpret/design SSF as they will. Although SSF has been around as a self-implemented challenge for over 20 years. GGG is not the inventor nor the new standard for SSF. When you look at PoE-ninja cause limited sources... SSF is extremely niche the way GGG designed it.

Bottom line, I don't want to ruin your fun. Although I believe it's completely viable to design SSF specifically in PoE2 to be more new player friendly via vendor recipes... Without ruining your fun.

Although others have pointed out that GGG maybe does this on purpose to encourage players to play in trade-league so, there is that. Not a big fan of that thought process though.

Side note:
Appreciate the concern regarding inflation!

I genuinely didn't like the temple so it was whatever to me but I still generally do okay in trade leagues. I have around 100+ div just sitting my stash now cause I'm kind of done at this point.

See for me, I love the SSF game mode but the current iteration just doesn't respect my time. There was a time when I did enjoy SSF in PoE. Essentially self-imposed SSF and just farmed Dried Lake and used vendor recipes to get my currencies. I made my own builds often a cyclone build.

Thing is, at some point GGG decided to hammer down on a trade-driven economy. It's hard to go back to SSF at this point. Essentially after the 50-80% drop rate nerf. Then we also had Archnemesis and Ruthless... I genuinely thought for a moment that they were going to try and make standard Ruthless mode essentially. -_-

Is SSF a separate ecosystem... not really. You change drop rates in standard. It from my understanding changes in SSF. If standard was like pffffft forget that. Why on earth would I touch their poorly designed SSF. That's not hardcore, it's like a gatcha game trying to sneakily get you to purchase mtx but it's clear as day. That's how I feel when I look at PoE1' SSF nowadays.

It's like, the Resident Evil franchise to Dark Souls/Elden ring kinds of games... They are good representations of purposefully designing a challenging game.

Then there is PoE. Let's just copy and paste our trade-economy minus trade and say it's "for the hardcore playerbase" so we don't have to worry about rebalancing...

Good design intention above; Bad design intention below... lol

What I am saying is, there is intentional and then there is cutting corners. I won't say lazy cause from a resource perspective it makes sense why GGG did it this way but doesn't change the flaws...

I know this is abit long sorry, I'm trying to be better at replying with shorter responses but words just keep coming out.

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KaosuRyoko#1633 schrieb:

I can certainly feel for college students and gamer dads; however, I also don't believe that every game has to, or even can, cater to every player. Catering to the lowest common denominator the biggest driver in the enshittification of everything in modern society imo. I don't mean it to be an elitist or gatekeeper particularly, but maybe this game just isn't designed for them and maybe that's OK. Dark Souls isn't designed for people that aren't masochists, they're unapologetic about it, and it's genuinely an amazing series. Animal Crossing and Stardew Valley aren't designed for hardcore grinders or loot junkies, but they're great games. I think the games that are truly great are the ones that create a vision and set out to achieve it rather than trying to appeal to as many people as possible.

I do like what you say here and I think you have a wonderful point. There is a reason I don't try and put my two cents in like oh SSF in PoE needs to change lol.

Although GGG said from the start they wanted PoE2 to be the entry title to draw in newer players to the genre while maintaining as much depth as possible from PoE1. This is the sole reason why I am putting my two cents in the EA Feedback for PoE2 only.

I do agree that you have a strong point that some games are just not designed for some people. If PoE2 is truly meant to be a PoE1 hardcore kind of vibe then I believe you are correct and I am wrong.

But I still think the bloody SSF is poorly designed hehe

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KaosuRyoko#1633 schrieb:

I am of course pretty biased, since I'm an economy player at heart. Because I'm an economy player and because the game is explicitly designed to enable players like me, these suggestions always feel like they're trying to take that away from me. I rarely think that's actually the intent, i just fully believe that pulling dev time into crafting this would be the death of trade completely. Even if it doesn't completely die, the smaller the player base gets, the more volatile and degraded the economy becomes. This is fairly easy to observe if you're playing in the Second Wind league - I've been watching Greater Exalts oscillate from 3 Ex to 20Ex at different points in the day, and Perfect waffle between 20Ex and 100Ex. I've made hundreds of exalts just by setting buy and sell orders at either end of those huge swings. The economy may lead to me migrating back out of the PL, we'll see.

I hadn't thought about it that way. Although when I play PoE1. Often I go to the end of the league almost. We talking a week or two left. I never once felt like when the player count went from 30-40k down to ~5-10k that I had issues with trading or making currency.

As well for the flipping... imo I saw this and benefited from this in 0.1. I skipped 0.2 and 0.3 leagues, so I can't speak for those. Although generally speaking this is more market manipulation over that second wind stuff. I am guessing you're like me, when using the currency exchange you take the currency and click to alternate them from both sides to see the prices. As to try and get the best deal possible when selling/buying. I know sometimes prices variations look wonky. XD

In my experience of all the PoE1 leagues I participated in. I don't believe the economy would be impacted much, if at all. If anything if prices go up for gear... So to would the currencies and it would balance out. If I had no issues trading at ~10k or less towards the end of a league. With the crazy number we got in PoE2 I don't believe it would hurt the economy. I played Albion online when it had 800-1k player count and I still had no issues trading in that game haha.

The whole inflation thing of PoE2 is a bit humorous to me cause while that whole drama over the Vaal temple was happening I genuinely didn't notice any changes to my profits. Splinters and ritual omens still sold the same... I think I have accumulated a few hundred divs over my game time this league. My build is at a point where it's just micro upgrades, ya know. Like I can do Chaos temples + Boss relatively with ease. Sure some uniques dropped in price but other then that everything like rings to other gear pieces were essentially unchanged. My gear and jewels still cause(edit: I meant to say "costed" no cause) me an arm and a leg lol

You know it's ironic, I love stocks well specifically I enjoy Forex. So you'd think I would enjoy a trade economy and I do. Although ironically I think it's cause I enjoy FX irl that having that SSF self made character is also very enjoyable. Getting away from trying to not get hit by market manipulation to worrying about money money money... SSF offers a unique experience that genuinely eliminates that FOMO of I need to make x-amount of divs per day... It's relaxing imo. (edit: that said, I would be playing SSF if I felt it was time respectful in PoE but I don't :/)


P.S. sorry for the long replies I don't expect you to read it all XD

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KaosuRyoko#1633 schrieb:

Unfortunately they've been pretty adamant that the res swapping from Harvest is too strong so it seems unlikely that they'll add it into 2.

Monsieur, say it is not true! (please read with a French accent like an angry French chef who just learned their $20k fish for Gordon Ramsey has been stolen.)

I will cry, I may be a man but I will cry if they don't add my sweet-baby Harvest into PoE2. Harvest and Harbinger are the two most enjoyable mechanics, imo. That and well Tujen's stacked decks.

I don't care about res stack swaps, they can remove that. Ironically, I didn't even know that was a thing. I JUST WANT MA DIVINATION GAMBA!