[Feedback] Giga-Nerf Energy Shield in Patch 0.4.0

The only thing about ES that needs nerfing are abyssal lich passives. You can get 40k by sacrificing summons for bonus ES through that ascendancy, and that is pretty insane.

I don't think ES needs any other nerfs. Instead we should buff life builds to be just as strong. I don't understand why some people are equating 1shots and unfair rips with challenge, which you will obviously get by chopping down ES. Instead of making everyone else miserable, we should instead make everyone able to be just as tanky and save 1shots for bosses with big telegraphed attacks.

The nice thing about PoE 2 is that it's not PoE 1 (or at least trying not to be), complete with all of its problems. It would be nice if we don't devolve into yet another zoom-and-boom game that favors glass cannons and the only semblance of challenge boils down to how quickly you can react to a bunch of mobs swarming you.

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AverBeg7#1689 schrieb:

It is not on the same level of Grim Feast in 0.1, or Amazon in 0.2. You are constructing a strawman.

1) Because? You said so?
2) Lets not misuse strawman please

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AverBeg7#1689 schrieb:

ES numbers in general is not the problem. People getting high numbers with investment, is not unbalanced.

Yes it is. But its not the only problem with ES, see my comment response in this thread to Pizzarugi for my "what the problem with ES is." Instead of the last few pages of assumptions.

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AverBeg7#1689 schrieb:

Life is better with less, you can do all content with life. If you cannot do all content with life, then please tell GGG about your experience so they can maybe look to test it themselves.

You're doubling down on what I already said you are doing...

"dont worry about what someone else can do if you can do everything just fine"


Your entire thing in this forum thread is "stop letting things bother you/stop comparing yourself to it" shielding necessary changes and feedback/balance concerns around dismissal comments like this.


Its like saying "hey man, nice you beat the game and all content on fort cry, dont say anything about deadeye and LA though, theres nothing wrong with it, so long as you dont compare yourself to it"


Such a big question mark

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AverBeg7#1689 schrieb:

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Legioona#1076 schrieb:

Again, as there are quite a few new people in the thread:

GGG should look at the numbers of the characters who still play, and if significantly more than 33% have more nodes in ES than armor or evasion, then actions need to be done to balance things.

Those actions are either 1) nerf ES, or 2) buff armor and evasion.

Why? Because the game is about build diversity. If things are not balanced, there will be no diversity, and majority of the skill tree is never used.

If it's never used, why doesn't even exist?


So, I'd encourage people to look further than their own character, and also to different leagues. Tradies and SSF play differently, as do SC and HC.

Ultimately it is not a problem, if life can scale to a point where it survives the max hits in endgame that the devs expect you to, and clear the content, then it is more than a viable option.

There are very good life builds that are not even strength or deflect stacking in the surround shell. Most of them outperform ES builds on similar investment.

Also, ES/EV is not exclusive to ES only builds. A life build, can also use ES/EV scaling, and many do.

When talking about balance, it is not about who has the biggest number at the end of the day. It is about how easy that number was to get and how easy it is to put together, and whether both archetypes can clear the content.

In a balanced game, all builds are played ~equally much.

Do you agree or disagree?

And

POE 2 should be a balanced game.

Do you agree or disagree?

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Mashgesture#2912 schrieb:

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AverBeg7#1689 schrieb:

It is not on the same level of Grim Feast in 0.1, or Amazon in 0.2. You are constructing a strawman.

1) Because? You said so?
2) Lets not misuse strawman please

Because you literally put words I didn't write and constructed it as my argument? I'm sorry, but if that's not a strawman, then what is bro?

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Legioona#1076 schrieb:

In a balanced game, all builds are played ~equally much.



Do you agree or disagree?

Disagree. Players don't seek balance when they play, they seek enjoyment. In an ideal world the most picked skills are the most universally enjoyable. It also never happens like that. People follow creators, and creators shift builds depending on meta shifts. A "balance" in pickrate is achieved by balance from patch to patch, not a "universally balanced" game.

It also depends what stage of the game you are looking at. Obviously, if you are looking in the campaign and early prog then almost 100% of builds play life. Do I sit here asking for more prevalence in those parts of the game for ES? No. ES is a high investment stat, and so it's prevalence goes up with the investment of the players. It only makes sense.

It is also not that simple, as I have said. You can invest in ES as Life. You start with ~1500 life. Life has better recovery options.

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Legioona#1076 schrieb:

POE 2 should be a balanced game.

It is easy to agree that the game should be balanced. It is harder to pin down what that is.

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AverBeg7#1689 schrieb:

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Legioona#1076 schrieb:

In a balanced game, all builds are played ~equally much.



Do you agree or disagree?

Disagree. Players don't seek balance when they play, they seek enjoyment. It also depends what stage of the game you are looking at. Obviously, if you are looking in the campaign and early prog then almost 100% of builds play life. Do I sit here asking for more prevalence in those parts of the game for ES? No. ES is a high investment stat, and so it's prevalence goes up with the investment of the players. It only makes sense.

It is also not that simple, as I have said. You can invest in ES as Life. You start with ~1500 life. Life has better recovery options.

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Legioona#1076 schrieb:

POE 2 should be a balanced game.

It is easy to agree that the game should be balanced. It is harder to pin down what that is.

It is not hard at all - look at numbers on what is played and what is not, and do adjustments to change this ratio to decrease what is played most, and increase what is played least.

Agree or disagree?

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Legioona#1076 schrieb:

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AverBeg7#1689 schrieb:

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Legioona#1076 schrieb:

In a balanced game, all builds are played ~equally much.



Do you agree or disagree?

Disagree. Players don't seek balance when they play, they seek enjoyment. It also depends what stage of the game you are looking at. Obviously, if you are looking in the campaign and early prog then almost 100% of builds play life. Do I sit here asking for more prevalence in those parts of the game for ES? No. ES is a high investment stat, and so it's prevalence goes up with the investment of the players. It only makes sense.

It is also not that simple, as I have said. You can invest in ES as Life. You start with ~1500 life. Life has better recovery options.

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Legioona#1076 schrieb:

POE 2 should be a balanced game.

It is easy to agree that the game should be balanced. It is harder to pin down what that is.

It is not hard at all - look at numbers on what is played and what is not, and do adjustments to change this ratio to decrease what is played most, and increase what is played least.

Agree or disagree?

Disagree. If you are talking about build meta, people follow creators, and creators pick builds because of meta shifts. When talking about the pickrate balance you are talking about making significant changes to the most or least previously played things so players will try something else in droves.

It is not possible to achieve a balance in the sense that universally everyone picks different things at the same rate. That is not how balance works. Players do not pick skills and builds because of their balance, they pick them for the sake of enjoyment.

If we're basing use data, Deadeye is 31% while Lich is 8% according to poe ninja. That tells me Liches and ES aren't the problem, but lightning arrow is and how an ascendancy synergizes very well with it.

Because at the end of the day, people don't care for tankiness. If they can destroy maps in a fraction of the time, they'll put in the bare minimal amount of defenses and pile on the damage.

There's nothing to kill you, if there's nothing left to kill you.

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Pizzarugi#6258 schrieb:

If we're basing use data, Deadeye is 31% while Lich is 8% according to poe ninja. That tells me Liches and ES aren't the problem, but lightning arrow is and how an ascendancy synergizes very well with it.

Because at the end of the day, people don't care for tankiness. If they can destroy maps in a fraction of the time, they'll put in the bare minimal amount of defenses and pile on the damage.

There's nothing to kill you, if there's nothing to kill you.

Absolutely correct. Deadeye is a popular build because it can clear maps with minimal investment. It is reasonable to be upset that there are no other league starters that can touch Deadeye. When talking about balance, these are the type of things to point to.

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AverBeg7#1689 schrieb:

Disagree. If you are talking about build meta, people follow creators, and creators pick builds because of meta shifts. When talking about the pickrate balance you are talking about making significant changes to the most or least previously played skills so players will try something else.

It is not possible to achieve a balance in the sense that universally everyone picks different things at the same rate. That is not how balance works. Players do not pick skills and builds because of their balance, they pick them for the sake of enjoyment.

Players pick based on enjoyment, developers task is to ensure balance = all builds are equally enjoyable.

There are multiple ways to do this, the current way GGG is doing this is via patches.

The other one would be to automate the nodes so, that the most picked nodes would have less value, and the seldomly picked nodes more.