[Feedback] Giga-Nerf Energy Shield in Patch 0.4.0

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vexorian#9572 schrieb:

If this was a problem with ES and CI, wouldn't we be seeing many Storm Weavers, Hellfire Witches and Monks on the rankings? Why is it always Liches? You can trivialize Life prefixes with just CI. But the rankings are showing a very specific character with a very specific skill combination...

That is an interesting question, curious what people think is the reason for this?

lichs sitting at 20k ES with 25% permanent damage reduction, better nerf giants blood

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raV#3445 schrieb:

lichs sitting at 20k ES with 25% permanent damage reduction, better nerf giants blood

If you guys are salty over warrior getting nerfed, this is not a reason to bring your misery to another archetype. You should instead ask GGG to buff life or undo the nerfs to giant blood.

By this logic, the next time they touch my archetype I will require for your class to be trashed.

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CharlesJT#7681 schrieb:

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Mashgesture#2912 schrieb:

ES is so far out in front.

Agreed, and any reasonable person would support nerfing Energy Shield in Patch 0.4.0.

Except you don't have a reasonable argument to nerf it, there is no real reason for you to be upset at people min-maxxing ES.

If you are struggling on your build, then just say this build doesn't feel good. Say life doesn't feel good. Then GGG can take a look at your character, test it themselves and determine whether it is a problem if you make enough good choices.

Pointing at an archetype that is not your own, and saying "nerf it" does not make sense, especially when you do not even understand it to begin with. This is just FOMO. This is just you being upset that your chosen archetype cannot achieve the same EHP. It's nonsense.

If you don't need it for the content, then the only reason to be upset, is that people built obviously better characters than you in one aspect and you do not see a way to replicate something similar on your archetype.

Your archetype was not designed to do something similar. It is more powerful in other ways that are not raw max numbers.

ES and Life do not function 1-1 in the game, ES scales higher because it is more invested/ has less recovery options, and if you just played an ES build instead of guessing you know just about everything, then you would know that.

What you are talking about, is a specific build that should be nerfed. It is lich with the abyss ascendancy. They can get ridiculous ES and still do damage, on a reasonable setup. This means the title of the thread, the thing you should be complaining about, is not ES. It is specifically Abyssal Lich. Which GGG will obviously nerf or remove anyway.

I am really sick of people being intellectually dishonest and trying to win arguments in this forum by just pulling stuff out of their butt and acting like it's a slam dunk. Just weirdly you choose to not share your own personal experience and instead make your problems somehow broadly about the game and all players. You are not all players, you are one. So speak for yourself instead of the entire community.

Its interesting you said you were done talking and everyone is just dishonest and here you are doing the same post over again.


Lich is not the problem, ES is.


Feel like a broken record with this next one
"Youd know this if" you took a look as to why ES gets so high.




Notice how none of these are liches.

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Mashgesture#2912 schrieb:

Its interesting you said you were done talking and everyone is just dishonest and here you are doing the same post over again.


Lich is not the problem, ES is.


Feel like a broken record with this next one
"Youd know this if" you took a look as to why ES gets so high.

Spoiler

Notice how none of these are liches.

Wow, you filtered out the liches on PoENinja bro, good job.

Comparing to the top builds on PoENinja is still useless. they are not your average mapper. In fact taking stats from the best players at basically the end of the league, is just stupid man. If you are talking about it being broken in 0.3, it is specifically abyssal lich, because they double those top-end numbers. So it is actually not out of the realm of possibility for your average mapper to consider doing a lich setup for the EHP.

If life is fine, if it works, then there's not a problem apart from your perceived one. Which is just FOMO. You don't need it. So why are you here? And if you do need it, why call for nerfs instead of buffs to your own archetype?

There is just no way you can frame it, where it actually makes logical sense to have these types of complaints. If you are comparing yourself to better players, with more investment in their characters, you are already trapped in a logical fallacy. If you are comparing the numbers of separate archetypes 1-1 when they do not operate 1-1, you're just rambling nonsense.

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AverBeg7#1689 schrieb:

Wow, you filtered out the liches on PoENinja bro, good job.

Comparing to the top builds on PoENinja is still useless. they are not your average mapper. In fact taking stats from the best players at basically the end of the league, is just stupid man. If you are talking about it being broken in 0.3, it is specifically abyssal lich, because they double those top-end numbers. So it is actually not out of the realm of possibility for your average mapper to consider doing a lich setup for the EHP.

If life is fine, if it works, then there's not a problem apart from your perceived one. Which is just FOMO. You don't need it. So why are you here? And if you do need it, why call for nerfs instead of buffs to your own archetype?

There is just no way you can frame it, where it actually makes logical sense to have these types of complaints. If you are comparing yourself to better players, with more investment in their characters, you are already trapped in a logical fallacy.

What is this argument lol.

"Yea I had a lot of fun and cleared all content with solar orb and fortcry shield wave"

"Im not gonna worry about LS from .2 though, it should be unnerfed I compared myself to it, there was nothing inherently broken about it, just me comparing myself to it."

"Im not gonna worry about grim feast, spark, stat stacking, old hammer of the gods, it should be unnerfed I compared myself to it, there was nothing inherently broken or unbalanced about these, just me comparing myself to it"


Was hard to type that.... but this is your entire argument.

Again, as there are quite a few new people in the thread:

GGG should look at the numbers of the characters who still play, and if significantly more than 33% have more nodes in ES than armor or evasion, then actions need to be done to balance things.

Those actions are either 1) nerf ES, or 2) buff armor and evasion.

Why? Because the game is about build diversity. If things are not balanced, there will be no diversity, and majority of the skill tree is never used.

If it's never used, why doesn't even exist?


So, I'd encourage people to look further than their own character, and also to different leagues. Tradies and SSF play differently, as do SC and HC.

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Mashgesture#2912 schrieb:

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AverBeg7#1689 schrieb:

Wow, you filtered out the liches on PoENinja bro, good job.

Comparing to the top builds on PoENinja is still useless. they are not your average mapper. In fact taking stats from the best players at basically the end of the league, is just stupid man. If you are talking about it being broken in 0.3, it is specifically abyssal lich, because they double those top-end numbers. So it is actually not out of the realm of possibility for your average mapper to consider doing a lich setup for the EHP.

If life is fine, if it works, then there's not a problem apart from your perceived one. Which is just FOMO. You don't need it. So why are you here? And if you do need it, why call for nerfs instead of buffs to your own archetype?

There is just no way you can frame it, where it actually makes logical sense to have these types of complaints. If you are comparing yourself to better players, with more investment in their characters, you are already trapped in a logical fallacy.

What is this argument lol.

"Yea I had a lot of fun and cleared all content with solar orb and fortcry shield wave"

"Im not gonna worry about LS from .2 though, it should be unnerfed I compared myself to it, there was nothing inherently broken about it, just me comparing myself to it."

"Im not gonna worry about grim feast, spark, stat stacking, old hammer of the gods, it should be unnerfed I compared myself to it, there was nothing inherently broken or unbalanced about these, just me comparing myself to it"


Was hard to type that.... but this is your entire argument.

It is not on the same level of Grim Feast in 0.1, or Amazon in 0.2. You are constructing a strawman.

ES numbers in general is not the problem. People getting high numbers with investment, is not unbalanced. Life is better with less, you can do all content with life. If you cannot do all content with life, then please tell GGG about your experience so they can maybe look to test it themselves.

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Legioona#1076 schrieb:

Again, as there are quite a few new people in the thread:

GGG should look at the numbers of the characters who still play, and if significantly more than 33% have more nodes in ES than armor or evasion, then actions need to be done to balance things.

Those actions are either 1) nerf ES, or 2) buff armor and evasion.

Why? Because the game is about build diversity. If things are not balanced, there will be no diversity, and majority of the skill tree is never used.

If it's never used, why doesn't even exist?


So, I'd encourage people to look further than their own character, and also to different leagues. Tradies and SSF play differently, as do SC and HC.

Ultimately it is not a problem, if life can scale to a point where it survives the max hits in endgame that the devs expect you to, and clear the content, then it is more than a viable option.

There are very good life builds that are not even strength or deflect stacking in the surround shell. Most of them outperform ES builds on similar investment.

Also, ES/EV is not exclusive to ES only builds. A life build, can also use ES/EV scaling, and many do.

When talking about balance, it is not about who has the biggest number at the end of the day. It is about how easy that number was to get and how easy it is to put together, and whether both archetypes can clear the content on the same investment.

I think life only players are upset because they mostly don't have the option to scale. Most players just play life and then switch into ES when they can get insane gear. ES has 3 prefixes and the tree scaling.

Maybe there should be a way for life to invest more, but taking away the investment options from ES isn't a solution.