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I don't understand why people pick life and say "I'm not tanky enough, they should nerf ES"
What's so hard to understand? ES is too powerful if scaled correctly and the universal goal is to make game balanced. Not only between classes but also between you and the enemies and bosses. Nerfing ES is the most logical conclusion, unless you only care about getting more powerful... but your power growth is meaningless if enemies are pushovers.
If the game is "universally balanced" then why would ES be worse if it takes 3 affixes, more expensive, rare gear, and Life take one and less but be the same?
That doesn't really make sense.
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There's no reason not to invest a large portion of your passives in to buffing ES. Melting the screen in 0.3 seconds or 0.25 seconds has very little significance, but becoming nearly unkillable is.
And then there's affixes. So what? What are they sacrificing? Life prefixes that are useless since they reduce it to 1 anyways with CI? Thorns? Not stats, not resistances, skill levels, movement speed, etc. Almost nothing. When you can get everything you want and also everything you need, it's just having your cake and eating it too.
If it's a problem with damage with too little investment, then nerf those builds. I would say there's some pretty obvious ones to nerf but I would rather GGG focuses on elevating the bad skills and archetypes rather than dumping on everything. But they have to nerf the most meta builds to get people to switch and experiment on different stuff.
Prefixes on items are insanely valuable giving other defenses like armour/evasion or flat damage etc. Having bases with not just max hit but also mitigation is obviously better in some ways. You start with like 1.5k life which you do not with ES so it's better when you're less invested. It is kinda natural for life to be the low-end and ES to be the top-end generally if you just think about the design, but to say there are no arguable ways life is stronger is just being dishonest. It has less investment, better recovery, more access to damage reductions and increases. As long as it works and you can scale it, it's fine for it to not reach ES levels.
Zuletzt bearbeitet von AverBeg7#1689 um 22.09.2025, 01:23:04
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If you're talking about the top-end you shouldn't be pointing to stuff like PoENinja EHP.
ES is more invested than life. It takes up many affixes and passives to achieve those numbers. The numbers being higher than life once invested in is only natural. Stuff like PoENinja only tells you what EHP Path of Building expects, it does not account for stuff like % on kill or delayed damage etc. so it doesn't actually tell you which is effectively stronger only which has the highest # recovery and max hit in a predictable scenario. The people competing for numbers on PoENinja are doing just that, competing for numbers. It does not accurately represent the practical power or ease of the setup in content.
Life is in a much better spot this league than it was the previous one, thanks to the delayed damage timeless jewel passive and some very strong recovery options, as well as % on gear.
If they keep adding more options for life scale, it will be in an even better spot. The focus should be less on nerfing ES and more on giving life the scaling it is missing from the passive tree. In 0.3, they have already gone in the right direction, so I trust them to make some powerful options for both.
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Despite PoENinja listing ES as the most tanky builds I bet the guy who has 5k life and a good setup actually survives more in maps.
Just so you know the top end of life is 5k. Probably lower honestly as its 5k for a certain ascendancy more likely.
The people with higher than 5k are using 2 uniques. And/or specific ascendancies, mostly BM.
One that disables your spirit and costs 10 divs (kaoms)
And another that disables your ele res (veil)
My warrior is 4.3-4.4k
And I have a 15% increased ascendancy.
Both 3% increased max life nodes on the tree
Chest with over 250+ life on it, as well as 3x sockets with 40 life
Amulet with 178 life and 8% increased life, and str.
Rings with high life + str
Belt with high life
Gloves Boots etc...
All of this and I dont even reach 5k.
So this whole narrative you have on investment and top end, and then you say 5k in the same breath when it comes to life. Means you dont really know where life is it seems.
It screams main character energy on ES playing almost. You just dont know where life is currently.
Life this patch is in a great spot. It does not need to be "buffed" up to ES in any shape or form.
ES is so far out in front. You have to be so detatched from an entire archetype of the game (life) to even think what you are playing is remotely fair.
Mash the clean Zuletzt bearbeitet von Mashgesture#2912 um 22.09.2025, 01:25:40
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Life this patch is in a great spot. It does not need to be "buffed" up to ES in any shape or form.
ES is so far out in front. You have to be so detatched from an entire archetype of the game (life) to even think what you are playing is remotely fair.
I'm confused, if it's in a great spot and you're doing fine. Why are you here calling for ES nerfs because you saw some big numbers?
Isn't that kind of weirdly comparing yourself to someone else that is min-maxxing an entirely different thing?
5k was just an example when talking about the top of PoENinja leaderboards specifically. If you read it;
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Despite PoENinja listing ES as the most tanky builds I bet the guy who has 5k life and a good setup actually survives more in maps.
It is literally in the same sentence. So I dunno why you felt the need to rant about my numbers being "off-base" when people in here are posting screenshots of the top of PoENinja like it means anything, and there's a guy with 7k life in the same screenshot. Just because you can't hit 5k on your budget does not mean it's implausible.
A life build with high enough EHP to survive the max hits is tankier than a guy using a big ES pool because the recovery options are better, was my point. Comparing people that are just pushing one number up on PoENinja to people that are actually making good, affordable mappers in the game is just silly.
Zuletzt bearbeitet von AverBeg7#1689 um 22.09.2025, 01:41:02
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Life this patch is in a great spot. It does not need to be "buffed" up to ES in any shape or form.
ES is so far out in front. You have to be so detatched from an entire archetype of the game (life) to even think what you are playing is remotely fair.
I'm confused, if it's in a great spot and you're doing fine. Why are you here calling for ES nerfs because you saw some big numbers?
Isn't that kind of weirdly comparing yourself to someone else that is min-maxxing an entirely different thing?
5k was just an example when talking about the top of PoENinja leaderboards specifically. If you read it;
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Despite PoENinja listing ES as the most tanky builds I bet the guy who has 5k life and a good setup actually survives more in maps.
It is literally in the same sentence. So I dunno why you felt the need to rant about my numbers being "off-base" when people in here are posting screenshots of the top of PoENinja like it means anything, and there's a guy with 7k life in the same screenshot. Just because you can't hit 5k on your budget does not mean it's implausible.
A guy with high enough EHP to survive the max hits is tankier than a guy using a big ES pool because the recovery options are better, was my point. Comparing people that are just pushing one number up on PoENinja to people that are actually making good mappers in the game is just silly.
Because you go into saying "oh dont look at ninja, some guy is probably surviving just fine at 5k probably more so than some guy with "insert over the top equivalent ES here" "
Like 5k life in terms of investment and restriction, is easily over 15k ES, its not even traveling to the right hand side to get that much ES on a spell caster. And I dont have to roll a specific ascendancy to get that much es either.
And I dont get punished with no spirit and a chestpiece that costs 10divs +
Like the list goes on.
It helps to actually play and understand where people get that much life from. As well as ES to make these conclusions.
It seems just based on the responses, that neither is the case from what I gather. You are massively overselling how easy it is to get 12k+ ES, and massively underselling how hard it is to get 5k life.
As well as not really knowing how people get that high of life, in the first place.
Mash the clean
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Because you go into saying "oh dont look at ninja, some guy is probably surviving just fine at 5k probably more so than some guy with "insert over the top equivalent ES here" "
What do you mean "because you go into saying-". That doesn't constitute a reason for you to be here calling for ES nerfs. If you were struggling on a life build, I could see why. If you're just looking at other players like "wish I could get that on my life build" then it's just a perceived problem not an experienced one.
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Comparing people that are just pushing one number up on PoENinja to people that are actually making good, affordable mappers in the game is just silly.
You should not compare mappers to people on PoENinja, they are min-maxxing a number using spreadsheets and methods to unethically boost their Path of Building's calculations, not playing the game.
You should also not compare the numbers of ES and life 1-1. They are not 1-1 in terms of how they operate in the game.
And I do not see a reason to be upset that some players using ES got big numbers. I only have 3k, I'm doing fine. They don't need it, and they got it. Cool, good for them I guess. As l;ong as the game is never at the point where you need those numbers for valuable or expected content, then it's fine.
Zuletzt bearbeitet von AverBeg7#1689 um 22.09.2025, 02:00:17
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What do you mean "because I go into saying-".
Already posted this. Underselling one and overselling the other.
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That doesn't constitute a reason for you to be here calling for ES nerfs. If you were struggling on a life build, I could see why. If you're just looking at other players like "wish I could get that on my life build" then it's just a perceived problem not an experienced one.
Thats not why I am calling for a nerf against it.
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Comparing people that are just pushing one number up on PoENinja to people that are actually making good, affordable mappers in the game is just silly.
You should not compare mappers to people on PoENinja, they are min-maxxing a number using spreadsheets and methods to unethically boost their Path of Building's calculations, not playing the game.
Its funny you throw out min/maxxer but then throw out 5k life.
As if thats not min/max or asc specific.
Again youd know this if you knew where and how these people get this much life.
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You should also not compare the numbers of ES and life 1-1. They are not 1-1 in terms of how they operate in the game.
They have the exact same behavior and function. One just so happens to take a bit more chaos damage than the other.
Which fun fact.
CI is mostly ran to ignore that whole issue.
Mash the clean
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What do you mean "because I go into saying-".
Already posted this. Underselling one and overselling the other.
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That doesn't constitute a reason for you to be here calling for ES nerfs. If you were struggling on a life build, I could see why. If you're just looking at other players like "wish I could get that on my life build" then it's just a perceived problem not an experienced one.
Thats not why I am calling for a nerf against it.
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Comparing people that are just pushing one number up on PoENinja to people that are actually making good, affordable mappers in the game is just silly.
You should not compare mappers to people on PoENinja, they are min-maxxing a number using spreadsheets and methods to unethically boost their Path of Building's calculations, not playing the game.
Its funny you throw out min/maxxer but then throw out 5k life.
As if thats not min/max or asc specific.
Again youd know this if you knew where and how these people get this much life.
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You should also not compare the numbers of ES and life 1-1. They are not 1-1 in terms of how they operate in the game.
They have the exact same behavior and function. One just so happens to take a bit more chaos damage than the other.
Which fun fact.
CI is mostly ran to ignore that whole issue.
I've said what I needed to say, you're just looking to disagree with anything you can rather than actually reading. Have a good one mate.
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You should not compare mappers to people on PoENinja, they are min-maxxing a number using spreadsheets and methods to unethically boost their Path of Building's calculations, not playing the game.
You should also not compare the numbers of ES and life 1-1. They are not 1-1 in terms of how they operate in the game.
And I do not see a reason to be upset that some players using ES got big numbers. I only have 3k, I'm doing fine. They don't need it, and they got it. Cool, good for them I guess. As long as the game is never at the point where you need those numbers for valuable or expected content, then it's fine.
Zuletzt bearbeitet von AverBeg7#1689 um 22.09.2025, 02:03:02
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ES is so far out in front.
Agreed, and any reasonable person would support nerfing Energy Shield in Patch 0.4.0.
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If you're talking about the top-end you shouldn't be pointing to stuff like PoENinja EHP.
ES is more invested than life. It takes up many affixes and passives to achieve those numbers. The numbers being higher than life once invested in is only natural. Stuff like PoENinja only tells you what EHP Path of Building expects, it does not account for stuff like % on kill or delayed damage etc. so it doesn't actually tell you which is effectively stronger only which has the highest # recovery and max hit in a predictable scenario. The people competing for numbers on PoENinja are doing just that, competing for numbers. It does not accurately represent the practical power or ease of the setup in content.
Life is in a much better spot this league than it was the previous one, thanks to the delayed damage timeless jewel passive and some very strong recovery options, as well as % on gear.
If they keep adding more options for life scale, it will be in an even better spot. The focus should be less on nerfing ES and more on giving life the scaling it is missing from the passive tree. In 0.3, they have already gone in the right direction, so I trust them to make some powerful options for both.
There is no downside to any of this.
Players do insane damage. There's no reason not to invest a large portion of your passives in to buffing ES. Melting the screen in 0.3 seconds or 0.25 seconds has very little significance, but becoming nearly unkillable is.
And then there's affixes. So what? What are they sacrificing? Life prefixes that are useless since they reduce it to 1 anyways with CI? Thorns? Not stats, not resistances, skill levels, movement speed, etc. Almost nothing. When you can get everything you want and also everything you need, it's just having your cake and eating it too.
If this was a problem with ES and CI, wouldn't we be seeing many Storm Weavers, Hellfire Witches and Monks on the rankings? Why is it always Liches? You can trivialize Life prefixes with just CI. But the rankings are showing a very specific character with a very specific skill combination...
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