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I did participate in the BG3 EA. The difference between BG3 and PoE 2 is gigantic. Larian wasn't trying to frustrate players with completely unbalanced difficulty, they never made unfair balancing in favour of their system. GGG, in the other hand, have people streaming about gambling with the tools of their game. Literally 16 to 30 minutes long videos of a dude gambling, as if it was a slot machine. Go check some of the streams that Twitch banned and compare those to the PoE 2 videos. The only difference is real money, but the rest of it, is exactly the same.
That's just one of the many issues the game has. Trust me when I tell you that I wanted to like the game, but I paid with the expectations that the devs created on me. They spoke about crafting, they spoke about meaningful combat, they said they hated watching bosses being 1-shot killed and they wanted memorable fights... They lied. None of that was in the game, yet they said it was. I feel scammed. I am sure this is what they wanted because they weren't thinking about players having fun but rather about player retention, and the only industry that manages to retain ''players'' without missing, is the gambling industry, taking advantage of the high addiction component of the uncertain outcome. If you are not aware you are getting dragged into it, that could end up bad. Not every gambler started playing Poker or some slot machines, some of them might start with PoE 2 currency and move to real money stuff later, just for the feeling and because ''they were lucky with the rolls on PoE 2''.
You are straight-out lying. I played "Baldur's Gate 3 - Early Access" and reported bugs, sent in feedback, suggested changes, etc. in my hundreds of hours of playtesting and BG3 had, in fact, encounters/mechanics that were considered "unfair/frustrating/broken/impossible/bullshit" by not only a few ppl.
Larian had ppl too doing the same like ppl here. It even went so far that I made videos to debunk some of these claims with literal proof, and I am really lazy when it comes to "making a video", so you can imagine that the amount of "flame/toxicity" over some of the "unfair" stuff had to be really bad when I move my lazy butt.
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I did participate in the BG3 EA. The difference between BG3 and PoE 2 is gigantic. Larian wasn't trying to frustrate players with completely unbalanced difficulty, they never made unfair balancing in favour of their system. GGG, in the other hand, have people streaming about gambling with the tools of their game. Literally 16 to 30 minutes long videos of a dude gambling, as if it was a slot machine. Go check some of the streams that Twitch banned and compare those to the PoE 2 videos. The only difference is real money, but the rest of it, is exactly the same.
That's just one of the many issues the game has. Trust me when I tell you that I wanted to like the game, but I paid with the expectations that the devs created on me. They spoke about crafting, they spoke about meaningful combat, they said they hated watching bosses being 1-shot killed and they wanted memorable fights... They lied. None of that was in the game, yet they said it was. I feel scammed. I am sure this is what they wanted because they weren't thinking about players having fun but rather about player retention, and the only industry that manages to retain ''players'' without missing, is the gambling industry, taking advantage of the high addiction component of the uncertain outcome. If you are not aware you are getting dragged into it, that could end up bad. Not every gambler started playing Poker or some slot machines, some of them might start with PoE 2 currency and move to real money stuff later, just for the feeling and because ''they were lucky with the rolls on PoE 2''.
You are straight-out lying. I played "Baldur's Gate 3 - Early Access" and reported bugs, sent in feedback, suggested changes, etc. in my hundreds of hours of playtesting and BG3 had, in fact, encounters/mechanics that were considered "unfair/frustrating/broken/impossible/bullshit" by not only a few ppl.
Larian had ppl too doing the same like ppl here. It even went so far that I made videos to debunk some of these claims with literal proof, and I am really lazy when it comes to "making a video", so you can imagine that the amount of "flame/toxicity" over some of the "unfair" stuff had to be really bad when I move my lazy butt.
I didn't make a single mention about bugs. I understand you wanted to call me lier just because of. I see you like me, this is the second time you answer to something that wasn't for you. Lemme answer then, oh sweet ginger baby gurl.
The only ''unfair'' fight in the BG3 EA was the Gith patrol, because Anders was more ''buggy'' rather than difficult. Still, very different games. Those were 2 fights in a game that didn't have a fight every 2 minutes.
With PoE 2, we are talking about entire systems being broken. Read the amount of people complaining about being killed by ''nothing'', footage included. I did say GGG, compared to Larian, tuned the balance of the game to favour their vision, not the players. They knew how bad the visibility was and how overtuned mobs were, because Jonathan is just obsessed with creating an Elden Ring sequel, yet they decided to penalize death and also making every map 1-portal. That's thinking about retention and your game, your system, not about players.
The worst part, again, is the gambling they delivered as ''crafting''. This is by far the most disrespectful thing they could've done and I will never trust this company ever again. They clearly tried to get players retention with some of that addiction component of the gambling, as I stated before. And I say they did it on purpose because PoE 1 already has crafting but they didn't bring it to PoE 2 improved, yet they did that with the end game mechanics.
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Having completed T15 after 300 hours in poe2, I have some thoughts to share. A good game, first and foremost, should be fun and make the player feel good and rewarded for their time. Sadly, my experience with poe2 is riddled with lasting negative feelings throughout that make me wonder what is it all for. My gripe list as follows
1. Please don't make players lose their uniques if they die before they can collect it. It's rare early game and that just makes it so upsetting. Read "Psychology of loss aversion"
2. Please allow people to Respec rewards like the venom crypt rewards. Nothing upsets more than choosing the wrong choice for your build or realizing at end game that Chaos resistance is so fooking important. Same goes to ascendancy choice.
3. Please ditch the insane XP loss in atlas end game. I remember watching a developer interview/podcast a while back and someone said something along the lines that if you die, perhaps that means you should not be there. I guess he means that you should get stronger/better gear if you want to progress. My feedback to you is that I spent what 20-30 minutes on a map just to die to some rando super speeding mana siphoning self healing freeze spamming god mob, I lose all the XP gained in the last hour that would have helped me to level up and get stronger at least. Take my gold but don't take my XP please.
At the end of the day, I hope GGG Mark & Jonathan can see it from a different perspective, that gaming should be a form of enjoyment and not one that frequently frustrates and evoke a sense of loss/anger/regret in the gamer. There's already plenty of that with all the crap loot drops and T1 mods that can get rolled on an otherwise perfect piece of gear. There's no need to add more sources of frustration.
Until Act 4-6 drops, guh bye!
>Thanks broo
Zuletzt bearbeitet von benzman9001#5398 um 02.02.2025, 16:03:07
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I didn't make a single mention about bugs. I understand you wanted to call me lier just because of. I see you like me, this is the second time you answer to something that wasn't for you. Lemme answer then, oh sweet ginger baby gurl.
The only ''unfair'' fight in the BG3 EA was the Gith patrol, because Anders was more ''buggy'' rather than difficult. Still, very different games. Those were 2 fights in a game that didn't have a fight every 2 minutes.
With PoE 2, we are talking about entire systems being broken. Read the amount of people complaining about being killed by ''nothing'', footage included. I did say GGG, compared to Larian, tuned the balance of the game to favour their vision, not the players. They knew how bad the visibility was and how overtuned mobs were, because Jonathan is just obsessed with creating an Elden Ring sequel, yet they decided to penalize death and also making every map 1-portal. That's thinking about retention and your game, your system, not about players.
The worst part, again, is the gambling they delivered as ''crafting''. This is by far the most disrespectful thing they could've done and I will never trust this company ever again. They clearly tried to get players retention with some of that addiction component of the gambling, as I stated before. And I say they did it on purpose because PoE 1 already has crafting but they didn't bring it to PoE 2 improved, yet they did that with the end game mechanics.
Bugs were only a part of it, anyway.
I have seen most of the posts about invisible things killing ppl, do you think this is intended!? Because if you don't think it is intended, why bring it up!? But if you think it is intended, you are wrong.
Imagine listening to what Jonathan (GGG) said about Early Access. It was literally stated that many things are OVERTUNED in EA for various reasons.
Sometimes because they don't had time to test and balance it, sometimes because they rather nerf the difficulty of things than raise it (easier to adjust), sometimes because we lack the knowledge and so on.
If ppl went into the PoE2 EA and were surprised by the overtuned things it's not GGG's vault, they said this is the state of the game atm.
GGG always penalized death, they only added the "map loss" because of the new atlas system they are testing, it's not even set in stone.
AGAIN, that crafting is more rng compared to PoE1 has multiple reasons they already addressed. Not all crafting methods are implemented, the methods we have aren't adjusted or even revamped by now... why is it so hard to understand that we are in an early version (which is presentable to the public for testing) of the game and NOT on the full release version!? A lot of these things will change with future updates.
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I didn't make a single mention about bugs. I understand you wanted to call me lier just because of. I see you like me, this is the second time you answer to something that wasn't for you. Lemme answer then, oh sweet ginger baby gurl.
The only ''unfair'' fight in the BG3 EA was the Gith patrol, because Anders was more ''buggy'' rather than difficult. Still, very different games. Those were 2 fights in a game that didn't have a fight every 2 minutes.
With PoE 2, we are talking about entire systems being broken. Read the amount of people complaining about being killed by ''nothing'', footage included. I did say GGG, compared to Larian, tuned the balance of the game to favour their vision, not the players. They knew how bad the visibility was and how overtuned mobs were, because Jonathan is just obsessed with creating an Elden Ring sequel, yet they decided to penalize death and also making every map 1-portal. That's thinking about retention and your game, your system, not about players.
The worst part, again, is the gambling they delivered as ''crafting''. This is by far the most disrespectful thing they could've done and I will never trust this company ever again. They clearly tried to get players retention with some of that addiction component of the gambling, as I stated before. And I say they did it on purpose because PoE 1 already has crafting but they didn't bring it to PoE 2 improved, yet they did that with the end game mechanics.
Bugs were only a part of it, anyway.
I have seen most of the posts about invisible things killing ppl, do you think this is intended!? Because if you don't think it is intended, why bring it up!? But if you think it is intended, you are wrong.
Imagine listening to what Jonathan (GGG) said about Early Access. It was literally stated that many things are OVERTUNED in EA for various reasons.
Sometimes because they don't had time to test and balance it, sometimes because they rather nerf the difficulty of things than raise it (easier to adjust), sometimes because we lack the knowledge and so on.
If ppl went into the PoE2 EA and were surprised by the overtuned things it's not GGG's vault, they said this is the state of the game atm.
GGG always penalized death, they only added the "map loss" because of the new atlas system they are testing, it's not even set in stone.
AGAIN, that crafting is more rng compared to PoE1 has multiple reasons they already addressed. Not all crafting methods are implemented, the methods we have aren't adjusted or even revamped by now... why is it so hard to understand that we are in an early version (which is presentable to the public for testing) of the game and NOT on the full release version!? A lot of these things will change with future updates.
What I point as intended, is the gambling to create addiction and player retention, not the difficulty, which I just said it is unbalanced in favour of their system and not the players.
I don't remember GGG (Mark neither Jonathan) saying that the mobs were going to be overtuned. Legit don't have a single memory about those words. I do remember the interviews where Jonathan and Mark said how they managed to create a meaningful combat, tho. Also the presentation, the big stream to tell people why they should buy a key, was full of high notes. Nothing like ''this is a beta state game, with even some alpha testing, presented as early access because the marketing team says it works better''. That would've been transparency, something that people claim GGG has but yet I haven't seen.
Why bringing this gambling system to the game? Are you actually okay with the fact that they will introduce actual crafting with leagues, and selling the crafting as new content, when it was supposed to be part of the core game? Are you actually fine and think this is okay? This is exactly the same as Apple removing headphones and charger from the box, to then sell those in a different box.
I'm about to go to sleep, baby. Don't make me feel this dissapointed. I thought you were a really smart lady, but I can see the marketing team of GGG have twisted your mind, just like Palpatine did with Anakin.
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The "EXP-loss" you are talking about is a good example. You refer to "loss aversion" if it wouldn't be something GGG knows about, but that's the entire point.
If you are too weak for something you will probably die and thus you get punished. Ppl don't like to get punished so they have two options now:
- improve the character/build/skill/etc.
- ask for the removal of the punishment
The first option is what ppl should do, the second is the easy way out and for some reason only present to that degree with ppl who play "Path of Exile".
This punishment is intended and you find it in countless games but in other forms.
You are missing the OP's point. And I strongly agree with the OP here.
If the logic is that you "aren't supposed to be there" or "you need to be get stronger to be here" then EXP loss is DEFINITELY not the right choice.
Punishments for failure or mistakes on behalf of the player can come in quite literally any number of methods. Directly stealing the player's already-spent-time away is a very archaic and crude way to punish the player, especially in such an overtuned endgame. Then to make it worse, it's both a counter-intuitive and counter-productive punishment if the goal is to make the player stronger.
Please try to see that. Punishments can come in any form, doesn't need to come in stealing the player's time. It's awful. And many games that do offer EXP penalties on death have ways to avoid / recuperate the losses.
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What I point as intended, is the gambling to create addiction and player retention, not the difficulty, which I just said it is unbalanced in favour of their system and not the players.
I don't remember GGG (Mark neither Jonathan) saying that the mobs were going to be overtuned. Legit don't have a single memory about those words. I do remember the interviews where Jonathan and Mark said how they managed to create a meaningful combat, tho. Also the presentation, the big stream to tell people why they should buy a key, was full of high notes. Nothing like ''this is a beta state game, with even some alpha testing, presented as early access because the marketing team says it works better''. That would've been transparency, something that people claim GGG has but yet I haven't seen.
Why bringing this gambling system to the game? Are you actually okay with the fact that they will introduce actual crafting with leagues, and selling the crafting as new content, when it was supposed to be part of the core game? Are you actually fine and think this is okay? This is exactly the same as Apple removing headphones and charger from the box, to then sell those in a different box.
I'm about to go to sleep, baby. Don't make me feel this dissapointed. I thought you were a really smart lady, but I can see the marketing team of GGG have twisted your mind, just like Palpatine did with Anakin.
What you point out as "gambling" is just the result of an unfinished crafting system, that's it... it's not that deep. Put the tinfoil down.
And the system is unbalanced because it didn't go through the balancing phase, again, not that deep. Have you only seen the announcement video or have you watched the interview with community questions after it too?
Ok, so... let's take a look at the systems we have atm. We have the currencies, essences and omens. Would you be able to craft with these things an item you want which would be "top tier"? Yes. The mechanics are there, BUT atm only in theory.
The problem is not that the system itself is trash, it's the access. Greater essences are way too rare, even if you turn in smaller essences for the chance of greater essences and the same goes for omens. The good omens are so rare, that they basically don't exist for crafting. But that's a balancing issue, not the system itself.
Furthermore, GGG will add pre-release other ways to craft, for example, the mentioned "Expedition" revamp.
There could be even crafting stuff from Acts 4-6 we haven't seen yet because they wait with it until they release these acts into EA.
I know I repeat myself, but EA was released on 0.1.0, which is pretty far away from 1.0.0 and you probably remember BG3 EA and how huge the difference between the EA version and the full release version was.
I mean, we only had Act 1 for the entire EA and they released it with 3 Acts.
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You are missing the OP's point. And I strongly agree with the OP here.
If the logic is that you "aren't supposed to be there" or "you need to be get stronger to be here" then EXP loss is DEFINITELY not the right choice.
Punishments for failure or mistakes on behalf of the player can come in quite literally any number of methods. Directly stealing the player's already-spent-time away is a very archaic and crude way to punish the player, especially in such an overtuned endgame. Then to make it worse, it's both a counter-intuitive and counter-productive punishment if the goal is to make the player stronger.
Please try to see that. Punishments can come in any form, doesn't need to come in stealing the player's time. It's awful. And many games that do offer EXP penalties on death have ways to avoid / recuperate the losses.
Me not agreeing with his point is not missing it.
The exp loss is literally the way to tell you "that's not meant for you".
So you go to a place where you are confident farming (exp, currency, items) until you are ready, lower tier maps or less juiced content for example.
Why exp loss? Because if you don't lose exp you would gain exp no matter how often you die. Gaining exp would lead to level up, so you would gain power while you are technically not ready for what you are doing thus overcoming it - when you shouldn't.
Imagine there would be a boss. Normally, if you can't kill the boss you wouldn't get the loot. Removing the "exp loss barrier" would be like "every 10th attempt - even if you don't kill the boss - you get loot from it". Doesn't make much sense, right!?
And only to clarify, you can use an omen to safe your character from death and even to reduce your exp loss by 75%. So I don't get what's the issue here.
[Removed by Support] Zuletzt bearbeitet von JakkerONAIR#4902 um 02.02.2025, 16:50:43
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this thread is punishing yet strangely addictive...
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Beitrag vonTyeFang#2998am 02.02.2025, 16:54:26
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What I point as intended, is the gambling to create addiction and player retention, not the difficulty, which I just said it is unbalanced in favour of their system and not the players.
I don't remember GGG (Mark neither Jonathan) saying that the mobs were going to be overtuned. Legit don't have a single memory about those words. I do remember the interviews where Jonathan and Mark said how they managed to create a meaningful combat, tho. Also the presentation, the big stream to tell people why they should buy a key, was full of high notes. Nothing like ''this is a beta state game, with even some alpha testing, presented as early access because the marketing team says it works better''. That would've been transparency, something that people claim GGG has but yet I haven't seen.
Why bringing this gambling system to the game? Are you actually okay with the fact that they will introduce actual crafting with leagues, and selling the crafting as new content, when it was supposed to be part of the core game? Are you actually fine and think this is okay? This is exactly the same as Apple removing headphones and charger from the box, to then sell those in a different box.
I'm about to go to sleep, baby. Don't make me feel this dissapointed. I thought you were a really smart lady, but I can see the marketing team of GGG have twisted your mind, just like Palpatine did with Anakin.
What you point out as "gambling" is just the result of an unfinished crafting system, that's it... it's not that deep. Put the tinfoil down.
And the system is unbalanced because it didn't go through the balancing phase, again, not that deep. Have you only seen the announcement video or have you watched the interview with community questions after it too?
Ok, so... let's take a look at the systems we have atm. We have the currencies, essences and omens. Would you be able to craft with these things an item you want which would be "top tier"? Yes. The mechanics are there, BUT atm only in theory.
The problem is not that the system itself is trash, it's the access. Greater essences are way too rare, even if you turn in smaller essences for the chance of greater essences and the same goes for omens. The good omens are so rare, that they basically don't exist for crafting. But that's a balancing issue, not the system itself.
Furthermore, GGG will add pre-release other ways to craft, for example, the mentioned "Expedition" revamp.
There could be even crafting stuff from Acts 4-6 we haven't seen yet because they wait with it until they release these acts into EA.
I know I repeat myself, but EA was released on 0.1.0, which is pretty far away from 1.0.0 and you probably remember BG3 EA and how huge the difference between the EA version and the full release version was.
I mean, we only had Act 1 for the entire EA and they released it with 3 Acts.
I am sorry, mami linda, but I don't agree.
I see a conceited and overconfident GGG before release, and you are being very acquiescent with them. There's nothing wrong with that.
The balancing is deep enough to be mentioned. When you already have a balanced game (PoE 1), you can start from there and won't be destroying the players' fun. Unless, of course, you are looking for a higher player retention. I feel like their meetings balanced the game around slowing the player down, by making maps more punishing, and gambling instead of the actual game loop and how the players would feel about it, you know what I mean?
- Is it possible to get higher player retention?
- Not from a Jedi.
Anyways, mi amor, was fun to disagree with your ginger avatar, but we won't get to see each other POV. I won't ever trust or believe a single word from GGG. They use the skin of the ''we are simple dudes and we are transparent'', but at the end of the day, they are a company with bills, employees to pay, and money aspirations. It was my fault to believe all the things they said in the past months/years before release.
La quiero mucho, mi amor. Cuídese.
Zuletzt bearbeitet von ThreeBelowZero#2968 um 02.02.2025, 17:06:21
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