What happened to Engaging Combat? Video Feedback.

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AverBeg7#1689 schrieb:

It really isn't. Saying "everyone does x so I enjoy myself less, they shouldn't do x" isn't valid.

It is not like this actually. Its more like the game forces you to play as much aoe and damage and speed as you can ignoring almost everything else and monster mechanics due to thier design on maps.

In campaign its more or less OK at least in SSF and not meta builds. I'm fine if there will be some game moments with monsters swarm and if the player really need to set up some combo / tech to prepare great AoE skills and explode them.

But current state just forces players to have as much aoe as possible almost always and don't bother with monster types and abilities.

Same in both trials, all you need for successful run is oneshotting bosses damage to ignore their mechanics and before they can land a hit.

Again its OK if you can set up atlas , tree, towers at T15 and get this level of zooming in godlike tier gear. Like the 24/7 streamers who's job is playing the game professionally.

But i kinda had this level of zooming on meelee troll build with 1 div mace. I have to explode screen of trash mobs and oneshot rares and bosses on maps. Thats sux. I don't even see whom im fighting with, just some crowd of random monsters.

The monsters design is really great - interesting how many players actully noticed there's exploding mobs in minecarts in the mines?
Or focusing those necromancers reviving other undead? Or those fun big raptors filled with goblins?
But the game balance just doesnt allow players to see all that

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cowmoo275#3095 schrieb:

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KäsePizza#3007 schrieb:

post

yes.....and I already explained every single one of these points.

The reason why PoE 2 CAN'T be its own game....is because it was developed as a copy/paste of PoE 1. I don't WANT it to be PoE1....but that is simply what it was built to be.

It is the product we have in our hands: a PoE 1 clone. All your comments boil down to "well they made it separate because they didn't want xyz"..........but they didn't built it correctly. It spent too much time in development as an expansion. It shows. The games are identical in basically every aspect except speed and power.

I've asked numerous times for someone to point to me one single MEANINGFUL difference between PoE 1 and PoE 2, besides the fact that it is just generally slower. And even that one point is only temporary, as we all are aware in this thread.

Every system is the SAME as PoE 1. That makes it foundationally the same game.


That is the permanent mistake of PoE 2: it ISN'T a different or separate game. At least not in terms of function or foundation.

Exactly that’s what I keep trying to say whenever people throw at me “you just don’t get it, PoE 2 isn’t PoE 1 with zoom zoom gameplay.” The point isn’t what I want, the point is that PoE 2 really is just PoE 1’s clone - on PoE 1’s engine, by PoE 1’s developers - trying to pretend it’s about “meaningful gameplay.” But the only thing they actually know how to design is zoom-zoom gameplay.

Every mechanic in PoE 2 is a direct carryover from PoE 1. That’s why on maps we’re still fighting hordes of mobs that just mindlessly charge at you like dummies. You physically cannot turn that into something meaningfu

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ShaDarkLord#6528 schrieb:

The point isn’t what I want, the point is that PoE 2 really is just PoE 1’s clone - on PoE 1’s engine, by PoE 1’s developers - trying to pretend it’s about “meaningful gameplay.” But the only thing they actually know how to design is zoom-zoom gameplay.

No, that is EXACTLY the point you guys are making. It's SPOT ON.

All the arguments you guys have been making prove that without a single doubt.

Just look at this argument you made there that I highlighted. You're basically saying that, because that's what they've ever done they are INCAPABLE of doing anything else and that it's impossible for them to evolve in any way, shape or form.

Picture yourself this scenario... I've been working X job for 10 years and I really want to change it to something different... and not even that different, mind you. I have some learning to do... and I could really use some feedback to improve.

Then you come and say "YOU CAN NEVER BE ANYTHING ELSE BECAUSE THIS IS THE ONLY THING YOU KNOW. GIVE UP"... absurd, ignorant and disgusting behavior.

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IonSugeRau1#1069 schrieb:

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ShaDarkLord#6528 schrieb:

The point isn’t what I want, the point is that PoE 2 really is just PoE 1’s clone - on PoE 1’s engine, by PoE 1’s developers - trying to pretend it’s about “meaningful gameplay.” But the only thing they actually know how to design is zoom-zoom gameplay.

No, that is EXACTLY the point you guys are making. It's SPOT ON.

All the arguments you guys have been making prove that without a single doubt.

Just look at this argument you made there that I highlighted. You're basically saying that, because that's what they've ever done they are INCAPABLE of doing anything else and that it's impossible for them to evolve in any way, shape or form.

Picture yourself this scenario... I've been working X job for 10 years and I really want to change it to something different... and not even that different, mind you. I have some learning to do... and I could really use some feedback to improve.

Then you come and say "YOU CAN NEVER BE ANYTHING ELSE BECAUSE THIS IS THE ONLY THING YOU KNOW. GIVE UP"... absurd, ignorant and disgusting behavior.

Come, show me meaningfull combat, I’ll run for you t16 instilled map with abyss and breach, come prove it, without all these aoe and screen clearing. Its not about what they done, but about what they do. You can use parry and block and only single target skills without all these poe 1 zoom zoom. If you complete i’ll give you 10 divines plus all loot from map, if you loose - you give me 10 divines instead. Be a man, be responsible for your words. We can raise bets if you sure. 20 or 50 divines. Without sparks, without heralds, totems, ballistas, hexes, and all these aoe screen clearing. Only meaningfull and slow paced combat

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ShaDarkLord#6528 schrieb:

Come, show me meaningfull combat, I’ll run for you t16 instilled map with abyss and breach, come prove it, without all these aoe and screen clearing. Its not about what they done, but about what they do. You can use parry and block and only single target skills without all these poe 1 zoom zoom. If you complete i’ll give you 10 divines plus all loot from map, if you loose - you give me 10 divines instead. Be a man, be responsible for your words. We can raise bets if you sure. 20 or 50 divines. Without sparks, without heralds, totems, ballistas, hexes, and all these aoe screen clearing. Only meaningfull and slow paced combat

Prove what? That they gave you the exact same shit you asked for and pushed towards, including all those cringe Content Creators, since they first revealed the first combat footage? While not leaving them one bit to work towards the more engaging combat they wanted to work on initially? Now trying to use that as an excuse to say that they don't know how to do it? lol.

...

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IonSugeRau1#1069 schrieb:

...absurd, ignorant and disgusting behavior.

I'll never wrap my head around the conflict of interest that is the game's combat pacing.

In campaign, it genuinely feels like like a souls-like. Slow, tactical, boss heavy attacks will absolutely rock you if you don't get out of the way. It's a good, promising change for what's to come when you reach endgame.

And then you reach endgame, and realize that at least two mechanics have timers. There are situations where you will straight up get 1shot without seeing what happened. You can't have a slow and tactical feeling combat if you implement content that punishes you for being slow and tactical.

They could've given us Blight, Metamorph, Archnemesis, Harvest, Delve, Betrayal, or Harbinger. Instead they willfully chose Breach and Delirium. What's next, they're going to add Legion and Synthesis? That dream of slow combat will never become a reality so long as timed content exists.

I want to know what GGG's line of thinking is that they want to have a clear difference in campaign and endgame when it comes to combat pacing.

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IonSugeRau1#1069 schrieb:

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ShaDarkLord#6528 schrieb:

Come, show me meaningfull combat, I’ll run for you t16 instilled map with abyss and breach, come prove it, without all these aoe and screen clearing. Its not about what they done, but about what they do. You can use parry and block and only single target skills without all these poe 1 zoom zoom. If you complete i’ll give you 10 divines plus all loot from map, if you loose - you give me 10 divines instead. Be a man, be responsible for your words. We can raise bets if you sure. 20 or 50 divines. Without sparks, without heralds, totems, ballistas, hexes, and all these aoe screen clearing. Only meaningfull and slow paced combat

Prove what? That they gave you the exact same shit you asked for and pushed towards, including all those cringe Content Creators, since they first revealed the first combat footage? While not leaving them one bit to work towards the more engaging combat they wanted to work on initially? Now trying to use that as an excuse to say that they don't know how to do it? lol.

...

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IonSugeRau1#1069 schrieb:

...absurd, ignorant and disgusting behavior.

So now it’s the players’ fault that GGG can’t design their own game? Cute excuse. I don’t remember a single content creator asking GGG back in 0.1 to just copy-paste PoE 1 mechanics. All of this stuff has been there since the 0.1 launch. [Removed by Support]

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ShaDarkLord#6528 schrieb:

So now it’s the players’ fault that GGG can’t design their own game? Cute excuse. I don’t remember a single content creator asking GGG back in 0.1 to just copy-paste PoE 1 mechanics. All of this stuff has been there since the 0.1 launch. [Removed by Support]

Both?

The players' fault for pushing them and GGG for listening to them instead of continuing to do what they wanted to do. But they at least have the excuse that they've been constantly pressured. The players though? Nothing... those are the worst.

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IonSugeRau1#1069 schrieb:

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ShaDarkLord#6528 schrieb:

So now it’s the players’ fault that GGG can’t design their own game? Cute excuse. I don’t remember a single content creator asking GGG back in 0.1 to just copy-paste PoE 1 mechanics. All of this stuff has been there since the 0.1 launch. [Removed by Support]

Both?

The players' fault for pushing them and GGG for listening to them instead of continuing to do what they wanted to do. But they at least have the excuse that they've been constantly pressured. The players though? Nothing... those are the worst.

“Both?” Yeah, sure — the players totally held GGG at gunpoint and forced them to code PoE 1.5. Come on. Nobody was out there chanting “please recycle PoE1 mechanics.” That’s pure fanfiction.

Nobody was begging for PoE 1.5. Show me a single streamer or community push back in 0.1 saying “please just copy PoE 1.” You won’t find it. That’s GGG’s choice, not some community conspiracy.

0.2 is the proof: they didn’t “go Souls,” they just nerfed players and left the same zoom-zoom core intact. Jonathan was pitching parries, combos, blocking. Instead we got PoE1 with less power and more pain.

Stop pretending the community demanded this mess.

You know how slow and meaningful gameplay works right? You can adjust it for 1000 mob’s running towards and stunlocking, with explodes under feet, with oneshots out of screen and etc. but this is actually what we see from 0.1


And in still waiting that you show me meaningful gameplay as GGG intended, breaches exists since 0.1, as delirium. Stop being hollow loudmouth.

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ShaDarkLord#6528 schrieb:

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IonSugeRau1#1069 schrieb:

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ShaDarkLord#6528 schrieb:

So now it’s the players’ fault that GGG can’t design their own game? Cute excuse. I don’t remember a single content creator asking GGG back in 0.1 to just copy-paste PoE 1 mechanics. All of this stuff has been there since the 0.1 launch. [Removed by Support]

Both?

The players' fault for pushing them and GGG for listening to them instead of continuing to do what they wanted to do. But they at least have the excuse that they've been constantly pressured. The players though? Nothing... those are the worst.

“Both?” Yeah, sure — the players totally held GGG at gunpoint and forced them to code PoE 1.5. Come on. Nobody was out there chanting “please recycle PoE1 mechanics.” That’s pure fanfiction.

Nobody was begging for PoE 1.5. Show me a single streamer or community push back in 0.1 saying “please just copy PoE 1.” You won’t find it. That’s GGG’s choice, not some community conspiracy.

0.2 is the proof: they didn’t “go Souls,” they just nerfed players and left the same zoom-zoom core intact. Jonathan was pitching parries, combos, blocking. Instead we got PoE1 with less power and more pain.

Stop pretending the community demanded this mess.

You know how slow and meaningful gameplay works right? You can adjust it for 1000 mob’s running towards and stunlocking, with explodes under feet, with oneshots out of screen and etc. but this is actually what we see from 0.1

You cant reason with them. It was obvious day 1 when every event GGG included was a swarm event completely contradicting the slow methodical meaningful combat. This individual is locked in on what they said and not what they actually did and because they dont like it, they are blaming the players.

Since release players have been asking for it to be more like POE1 simply because it needs to be if you are porting abyss, breech, ritual, simu, etc over. Every single one of this is anti parry style play. Meaning with no player input they already went against what they claimed they wanted. Nothing else needs pointed out, it is that obvious.

And to "fix" this, it would require a full rework of the majority of the game from map size, mob density, hp values/damage values for players and mobs alike and tons more. If GGG decides to do it, everyone knows how that will turn out. So from what I can see only three options remain. Fully embrace the POE1.5 meme, maintain this attempt at a middle ground where neither "side" is fully happy, or one of the previous two and make a completely new game on the side.