What happened to Engaging Combat? Video Feedback.
" And like I've said before, it's not even the case here. GGG didn't come here and say "We're gonna combine a train simulator with PoE!! Choo cHOo!". It's not even remotely the same thing. Any ARPG already has combat as it's main thing, main mechanic. Making said combat better, is just that. Nothing more, nothing less. Items are but a "vehicle" for progression and combat in any game that has it. Even if that combat is bad... items are still just a "vehicle". " Absolutely you could. In fact, the whole gear system in Souls games is probably one of it's weakest parts. As to how, exactly the same way they should do it in PoE2, by making sure not to give ridiculous multipliers and scaling content accordingly to the expected power gear can provide, and so on so forth with that in mind... Also very frequent balance patches, which GGG are very allergic to for some reason. Even if they didn't care at all about combat.. balance is extremely important still... the whole reason why only a handful of builds and skills rise above the rest is precisely because of that as well.... and that is what I referred to in a previous post as fake choice... what good are there a billion of possibilities if only a handful are actually good and much better then the rest... as you can see in the current 'meta". Ironically, the devs need to take the reigns and control the damn game if they want people to actually have more choice and more build diversity. "Sigh" Zuletzt bearbeitet von IonSugeRau1#1069 um 18.09.2025, 06:44:50
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" Well, that is the problem, the very core of path of exile is not the combat, it is the items. It is the very essence of the game. And the very core of dark souls is not items, it is combat. " And the reason why items are the worst part of dark souls is because combat... To keep it balanced you can not add a meaningful loot system. Because you would have to add alot of power to it for to have any meaning at all, and that means multipliers, because no one, or almost no one, is going to spend ten hours for a 0.1% upgrade, you would need atleast 10% character power for a ten hour grind, that you can actually feel, to make the time investment not seem like a complete waste of your time. I normally play to level 95 on my poe 1 characters, that is my own limit when I feel that the time invested doesnt have enough value for me to be able to legitimize it to myself. Next league in poe 1 im going to try to get a +1 frenzy charge implicit ring(syntesised item), value around 200 divines orb, that is my goal for the league. It adds a huge power-spike. Guess what I would do if it didnt add alot of character power? I would not do it. Dark souls scale items to the expected powers they want to players to be at, hence why the item system in dark souls is abysmal and they have no real loot-grind system in place... And GGG in this are very reactive, instead of proactive, when it comes to this. And that is why they added so much crafting, and increased the players power with items this league, because they know that is how you get people to grind the endgame. The data is clear, dead-eye at 30%, builds that clear screens are popular, not because of the clusterf¤ck of screen clutter, but because it makes the loot-grinding more effective. If items should have a value the upgrades needs to be powerful, if the upgrades are powerful that means that engaging combat will fade. Another option is the majority of players that doesnt get "best-in-slot" items will just suffer and be unable to progress, but that has its own problems. It is two very different game philosophies crashing into each other, and they are clearly divorced, the beginning is darksouls with item starvation and witheld power but with combat, the lategame is a loot-grind simulator without combat. Grind-loot for no power is a concept that doesnt work, and noticeable increased power is a concept that doesnt work for engaging combat... Im thinking were getting close to understanding eachother. |
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Spoiler
" By your logic, items are irrelevant in Dark souls. Is that correct? And nobody cares about any gear in Dark Souls. Do you still not see the problem with your logic here? Here's another example.. Monster Hunter... it's almost exclusively about gear hunting. Again, by your logic, gear doesn't matter in Monster Hunter. ??? In both of these games gear is super important. Do you understand the purpose of gear in general? Have you played any of these? "Sigh" Zuletzt bearbeitet von IonSugeRau1#1069 um 18.09.2025, 07:40:15
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" Yea, it would be. Would also be obvious that such mechanics won't be useful if added to PoE1 — and the PoE2 speed is kinda at the same point rn… " Why does character progression have to mean trivializing all content at some point? Why should the gameplay become more simple and easy the further you get? Like yea - the insane power from some items makes it pretty much so that brining content to that level is just stupid aswell. But why are there even support gems that boost your damage by 300%? Why does a +5 to spells give you double damage? I don't think you need these values just to make your character feel stronger… shouldn't you feel your character progressing if you can finally beat some boss because of that 10% damage from the new support gem and learning the boss mechanics? Like in the campaign, you are incentivized to upgrade your gear. On league start you will need some time for the Act 1 boss — you could do it with the starting weapon, but that would be too hard/annoying for most players — so you try to get some good weapon before that. Then you actually have a fight with him (ik some builds are already too strong at this point and can even trivialize him). It feels good to beat him, tho. In the endgame I just held down right-click for 3 seconds for the t3 ritual boss — the first time I did him. Then through the labyrinth, and then hold right-click again… That just made me quit the game, what's the point of playing more maps here? Min-max to reduce the time to 1 second? Also, there was no feeling of triumph — just me looking for the divine-sound of an omen... |
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" No, what im saying is that it is hard to make people grind for a hundred hours to find loot in dark souls. It is not that kind of game. The concept of "you have to kill these packs of enemies 2000-3000 times to gain x amount of power" is not a part of dark souls genre. |
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" Because it is the natural development of increased character power by grinding items. You could lower the character power incraments from items, but that means that fewer and fewer would grind for it. The theory is, arbitrary numbers, that 100% of players would grind for, lets say, 20% more power, and 50% for 10% more power, and 10% for 1% more power, and 0.1% for 0.1% more power. " Well, that could actually be lowered quite a bit without to much disturbance, but people still want power if they are going to spend x amount of hours to do something. The amount of players that grinds from level 95 to 100 is for the increase in power are not as many as the players that grind from 90 to 95, for the time invested compared to power is less. Also, a high damage ceiling allows for people to play off-meta classes and builds, lowering the ceiling will, without a doubt, also cull the amounts of viable builds and strategies. " The objective is loot and dopamine, that is what made poe 1 such a success. And more important, added longevity to the game that allowed it to survive. The average playtime of dark souls 3 is 30-90 hours, then people are done and will not return. You must understand the problem with that for a game whose business model is three month leagues. Why does people not return and continue to play it, even with such superior combat? Why did poe 1 increase their player numbers over eight years? What made people return? The theory, the loot & the sandbox element. Most certainly not the combat. Also, I have no strong opinions about the state of the endgame balance. It could be lowered alot and still keep the loot-grind element of the game alive. What im trying to say is that the balance between item-grind and meaningful combat is, as good as, impossible to combine due to how character power is bound to items and its, utmost necessarily, power spikes. Player will not grind the endgame if there is no reward. People will not play dark souls 3 twohundred hours every third month killing monsters on repeat... I have 4000 hours in poe 1, and 42 hours in dark souls 3... that is a slight difference in time investment. And time investment is for GGG money, and belive it or not, GGG is not non-profit association. Zuletzt bearbeitet von Grayeye#1799 um 18.09.2025, 08:19:00
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" What's the point of more power when you just zoom through the hardest content? Why wouldn't people grind for the power, if they would actually need it for the harder content? " The games about loot and building a character… so why is there a need for every single build to clear the pinnacle content? Shouldn't this be something you require a good build for — or have the skill/mechanics to compensate? " From what I know, dark souls also doesn't do leagues, changes the meta and looks for a lot of replayability… Ig most people beat the game once and that's it. Also you probably wouldn't want to grind if every single "white" mob needs your full attention. Besides, No Rest for the Wicked kinda does this kind of gameplay already as an ARPG. Yea, you need build diversity — 33% of players going LA deadeye, long live build diversity! But for real — is it that hard to make most skills at least kind of balanced? Or not adding 300% multipliers at every corner, so that you don't have a shit build with 30 times less damage if you miss out on 3 of these items? Is it wrong to have an expected player power higher than some kind of minimalistic-I-don't-know-what-I'm-doing-build at some point? If pinnacle content is for casuals, where is the content for experienced players that put in more time? For the loot part — ofc you need loot, and you need to feel it. But if the only feeling you get is zooming through 100 rares to get one divine-sound, idk. But there can be other sources of your dose of dopamine — a hard time with some boss, getting your build together through farming, learning the boss mechanics, then actually beating the boss AND getting good loot from it. In later leagues you get better and better with the mechanics, doing it faster/with less of a build… Making rares and bosses more of a fight would also make it possible to increase their loot — nothing is more unsatisfying than a map with 10 rares you zoom through, dropping 2 ex in the end… Also about the profit - time invested is not money, but players playing every league is, and maybe enough build diversity to sell more skill mtx. So you don't need players farming 500h every league, you just need something you want to come back to. That's what leagues are for. Zuletzt bearbeitet von KäsePizza#3007 um 18.09.2025, 08:51:36
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Mobs should have 5x HP.
Be 5x less on screen. Also much more dangerous (but buff our melee defenses) |
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The devs clearly wanted us to have to spend a couple minutes at least fighting bosses in the endgame. That is not happening so something is clearly wrong.
Im using a sorc ffs and bosses still die in less than 10 seconds. |
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" You absolutely do, it's just in another form. You use souls (that drop from monsters) to upgrade both your character and gear and sometimes even buy certain gear items. You can also farm specific mobs for their specific loot drops. So yes, if you continuously kill monsters you do gain more power. Not to mention that in Monster Hunter you exclusively farm mobs/bosses for pieces to make gear. Same shit. Okay but still... what is the purpose of gear? Why do you farm gear? I want to hear what your logic here is. "Sigh" Zuletzt bearbeitet von IonSugeRau1#1069 um 18.09.2025, 10:01:20
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