Have no interest in starting over in new league

Right, so the claim that EA toons don't get updates is BS. It's just another Standard.

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KaosuRyoko#1633 schrieb:

All that aside, I absolutely love fresh leagues with fresh economies and that's the only reason I ever played these game past 20 hours. They should never change it.

If all you do is play the reset league, why does it matter to you if Standard players get to concurrently access the same content? You aren't playing with them anyways.

The purpose of the new content being exclusuve is to force people to play with you. This is poor design that treats Standard users like second class citizens. It's antithetical to keeping long-term players engaged.

Those that enjoy F R E S H can go do that in the new league. Those of us that don't should still be permitted access to new content.

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LeFlesh#9979 schrieb:

Right, so the claim that EA toons don't get updates is BS. It's just another Standard.

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KaosuRyoko#1633 schrieb:

All that aside, I absolutely love fresh leagues with fresh economies and that's the only reason I ever played these game past 20 hours. They should never change it.

If all you do is play the reset league, why does it matter to you if Standard players get to concurrently access the same content? You aren't playing with them anyways.

The purpose of the new content being exclusuve is to force people to play with you. This is poor design that treats Standard users like second class citizens. It's antithetical to keeping long-term players engaged.

Those that enjoy F R E S H can go do that in the new league. Those of us that don't should still be permitted access to new content.

You kind of answered your own question in a way. The game is explicitly designed to be a cyclical seasonal game, and Standard players are, by design, second class citizens. I don't mean that with any level of disrespect or judgement at all; it's just exactly what the game was built around.

The reason I care is because fresh economies ONLY work with a critical mass of concurrent players. Look at how the economies consistently balloon a the player base drops every single league in both 1 and 2. They intentionally create leagues with exclusive content and rewards to ensure that critical mass is consistently reached and maintained for a month or so. If there was nothing that was league specific at all, less and less people would play in the league, leading to a weaker economy, leading to less players. It would be a death spiral. So it absolutely does affect me.

I strongly disagree with your statement that league resets are antithetical to long-term player engagement. They've tested and demonstrated repeatedly as a company that cyclical resets are what drive their users to come back. They have better retention and profitably marketing it as a game people get invested into for about a month every 3 or 4 months. That's kind of what the entire talk I was referencing was about:

https://youtu.be/tmuy9fyNUjY?si=LHHdRVG5MTM9gO1K


Side note: why do people in these conversations always write out fresh like that? Seems really weird and like it's intended to be condescending.

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Jeris Aragon#8412 schrieb:

Today I heard that the new content will only be available initially within the league?

I didnt think I would stop playing this game but I have no interest in starting over after now creating 15 characters and leveling them to 90+.

I do not find the idea of starting over interesting in any way whatsoever. How in the world did anyone come to the conclusion that in an RPG based on progression, starting all over would be somehow appealing?

Now I will have to wait 4 months longer after the new league launches to experience the new content?

You guys are really dissapointing me with this. Along with the xp loss on death my interest in this game is rapidly declining now and I'm surprised really. I had faith in this company.

I will stop playing, too. I legit feel scammed with this EA.
This game is absolutely RNG madness to start over. There are items and currencies that I have never seen drop after hundreds of hours in 0.1 plus keep playing in Standard, how do they expect you to farm for the same items if they never actually drop? This is a casino, it is by far the worst ARPG (and gaming) experience I have ever had.

They are going to have a reduced player base. This game is a streamer paradise since they can play this game for 14 hours a day and always have something to grind for, but for the actual normal player it is simply impossible to have a sense of completion. I wonder why streamers aren't playing this game... maybe GGG is failing to deliver on both sides.

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KaosuRyoko#1633 schrieb:

The game is explicitly designed to be a cyclical seasonal game, and Standard players are, by design, second class citizens.

That's PoE1 and PoE2 doesn't need to follow this design path. Both seasonal play and concurrent long-term Standard can coexist.

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KaosuRyoko#1633 schrieb:

I strongly disagree with your statement that league resets are antithetical to long-term player engagement. They've tested and demonstrated repeatedly as a company that cyclical resets are what drive their users to come back.

Creating quality content is what made them successful. They have never tested doing a massive patch without an economy reset OR doing said massive patch concurrently with Standard+the new league.The reset is your personal taste. I'm not arguing for leagues to be discontinued. Those that actually desire such an environment should have it. Those that dont should not be penalized.

I would say it is silly to expect permanent progression and the ability to play all of your standard characters in the new content, if it wasn't something that GGG foolishly promised during promotion.

If you don't start over with the new content, then the economy is going to be totally ruined. It is already ruined just weeks into a league. The longer the economy exists, the more of an uphill battle it is to actually interact with it.

If you don't start over with the new content, then there is 0 hype for a new expansion or starting another character because you have multiple that are already "done". There is less people trying new skills, and the player base is completely split.

The game is at it's most fun when you just blast the campaign and early maps with mates on a fresh start. It's most fun when the community is theory crafting new ideas in a fresh economy and racing each other to see whose is best. People who think of it as "lost progression" don't understand they are signing up to exist in a character graveyard where they can't afford anything.

It is not their fault for thinking that, it is GGG's fault for promising it would be so and then doing nothing different to keep Standard alive. GGG should have honestly said that Standard is not a priority, and encouraged people to start over in the fresh leagues. Balancing both Standard and fresh league starts is as much work as live servicing an entirely different game, which they are already struggling to balance.

Another problem with league starts where everyone already has level 90 characters and currency, is why bother earning anything? Why not just use your currency to pay someone else to boost you through the campaign so you can just start mapping? Then effectively there would be a campaign skip that I am sure a massive portion of the playerbase would abuse, and fixing it would make multiplayer just worse.

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AverBeg7#1689 schrieb:

If you don't start over with the new content, then the economy is going to be totally ruined.

There are plenty of players that don't care at all about the economy and just want to play the new content with their current toons or make a new character with their existing stash. Why not give both sets of players the same treatment?

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AverBeg7#1689 schrieb:

If you don't start over with the new content, then there is 0 hype for a new expansion or starting another character because you have multiple that are already "done".

For you, perhaps. This is not at all a universal mindset.

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AverBeg7#1689 schrieb:

The game is at it's most fun when you just blast the campaign and early maps with mates on a fresh start.

This can still be done while allowing Standard concurrent access to new content. Again, Im not against the reset itself. I'm against excluding Standard players.

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AverBeg7#1689 schrieb:

It is not their fault for thinking that, it is GGG's fault for promising it would be so and then doing nothing different to keep Standard alive.

GGG can cater to both playgroups by concurrently releasing the new content in the reset league together with Standard.

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AverBeg7#1689 schrieb:

Another problem with league starts where everyone already has level 90 characters and currency, is why bother earning anything? Why not just use your currency to pay someone else to boost you through the campaign so you can just start mapping? Then effectively there would be a campaign skip that I am sure a massive portion of the playerbase would abuse, and fixing it would make multiplayer just worse.

You can already do this in all versions of the game.

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LeFlesh#9979 schrieb:

There are plenty of players that don't care at all about the economy and just want to play the new content with their current toons or make a new character with their existing stash. Why not give both sets of players the same treatment?

If you are talking about SSF Standard, then you can already do that, so I'm not sure what you are talking about. In 0.2 they allowed Standard players to interact with the new content. I haven't seen any news about this being different in 0.3.

What are you asking for and arguing about, exactly?

Are you unaware it is a thing you can already do or are you just arguing for the sake of it?

In reality, what you are asking for already exists. If we are having a theoretical debate, then I would say they should exclude standard from the new content until the next release, to encourage people to participate in the live service model they are actually working on, and to show people like you that it's not "negative progress" it's "new progress" that is more fun, fresh, and exciting.

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LeFlesh#9979 schrieb:

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AverBeg7#1689 schrieb:

Another problem with league starts where everyone already has level 90 characters and currency, is why bother earning anything? Why not just use your currency to pay someone else to boost you through the campaign so you can just start mapping? Then effectively there would be a campaign skip that I am sure a massive portion of the playerbase would abuse, and fixing it would make multiplayer just worse.

You can already do this in all versions of the game.

How are you supposed to get boosted on a fresh league start when you don't have the currency and nobody has completed the campaign? That doesn't seem true at all.

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AverBeg7#1689 schrieb:

In 0.2 they allowed Standard players to interact with the new content. I haven't seen any news about this being different in 0.3.

What are you asking for and arguing about, exactly?

I'm 100% OK with how the new 0.2 content was released. I've been enjoying it in Standard. Going forward, GGG intends to exclude parts of the new content from Standard realms. That is what I'm opposing.

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LeFlesh#9979 schrieb:

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AverBeg7#1689 schrieb:

In 0.2 they allowed Standard players to interact with the new content. I haven't seen any news about this being different in 0.3.

What are you asking for and arguing about, exactly?

I'm 100% OK with how the new 0.2 content was released. I've been enjoying it in Standard. Going forward, GGG intends to exclude parts of the new content from Standard realms. That is what I'm opposing.

Is that true? Well I guess we are having a real discussion then. Yeah, I'm all for it. I reckon you should try a fresh start out and get more involved in the community on the way, I think you'd have a lot more fun than you realise.