XP penalty and likely 1 portal is NOT going anywhere

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1453R#7804 schrieb:

he only "examples" anyone here has given in the last few pages are of why they really should just go play PoE1.

"Or when there is a "unexpected disconnection" and it is counted as death closing the portal."

"Or when the game crashes and the client resets saying you changed "the location where you connected"..."

"You could simply die from being careless and you are more than capable of finishing the map without dying again."

Let's even throw one of mine "Then this game is a piece of timewaster because it alredy rewards those with the most time on their hands, regardless of skill, because with enough time, farming buys you everything."

If you're actively ignoring half the comments and cherry picking, like you ussualy do, yeah, there's "nothing".

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Z3RoNightMare#7140 schrieb:

"Or when there is a "unexpected disconnection" and it is counted as death closing the portal."

"Or when the game crashes and the client resets saying you changed "the location where you connected"..."

Server glitches are not a reasonable justification for throwing out the entirety of the PoE2 endgame and replacing it wholesale with the vastly inferior PoE1 endgame. The number of times this actually happens is statistical noise and everyone knows it. yes, it absolutely sucks when it does happen. I lost a couple of my more valuable maps over the weekend to ping Pong games and having the thing lag and rubberband like a jerk. It doesn't make me want to blow up literally the entire game and replace it with POE1, it made me say "Hey let's not do any of my good maps until this shit clears up, let's go do something else for a while."

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Z3RoNightMare#7140 schrieb:

"You could simply die from being careless and you are more than capable of finishing the map without dying again."

And? Who cares? I was perfectly capable of clearing the maps I lost, too. I dropped one when I was on the final map boss and fumble-fingering a dodge roll when he was at ~20% health, catching a slam I didn't mean to, and getting pasted. That was the last critter on the map, another thirty seconds tops and it would've been cleared. Does me losing that one map one time to a death that was entirely my own careless fault justify blowing up the entire POE2 endgame and replacing it wholesale with PoE1's vastly inferior endgame?

Nah.

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Z3RoNightMare#7140 schrieb:

Let's even throw one of mine "Then this game is a piece of timewaster because it alredy rewards those with the most time on their hands, regardless of skill, because with enough time, farming buys you everything."

And you're trying to make that even worse by blowing up PoE2's endgame and replacing it wholesale with PoE1's vastly inferior one, why? People claim to enjoy the looty, grindy aspects of Path of Exile, where simply throwing enough dice will eventually result in victory. Why argue against that here while pushing it as hard as you can everywhere else?

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Z3RoNightMare#7140 schrieb:

If you're actively ignoring half the comments and cherry picking, like you ussualy do, yeah, there's "nothing".

[Removed by Support]

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CPTBRUMBL3Z#3146 schrieb:

I fail to see how wanting to match the death penalty of the previous game somehow means we want this game to be exactly the same. Standard/softcore has a certain expectation, that the most you lose is some time and maybe some loot opportunities, maybe experience. Not aware of a single game that is this punitive for a non-hardcore death. May as well lose your previous quick save in any other given game for how bad one-attempt feels.

You want the death penalty to be completely and utterly identical in every last single respect.

You want the overall mapping experience to be completely and utterly identical in every last single respect.

I imagine you're also one who wants the "crafting" system to be completely and utterly identical in every last single respect.

Six portals with massive XP loss on death is a dumb stupid mechanic that can stay buried in the dregs of the past. Eliminate XP loss on death, retain one portal, and if people want to sustain T15s forever they need to get good enough to run them alch-and-go at the very least. Sure, occasionally that means biffing it and eating a lost map. I'd rather lose the one map the one time than lose all the XP from the previous twenty-five maps combined from one moment of "DOOF, missed that dodge roll, fuuuuu........"

If you support the XP Penalty, Are you likely to stop playing if it was removed ?

If you don't support the XP Penalty, Are you likely to stop playing if it remained ?

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Z3RoNightMare#7140 schrieb:

Let's even throw one of mine "Then this game is a piece of timewaster because it alredy rewards those with the most time on their hands, regardless of skill, because with enough time, farming buys you everything."

If you're actively ignoring half the comments and cherry picking, like you ussualy do, yeah, there's "nothing".

Actually, every single player can farm and progress at the same amount / hour. So if you have 100h over 30 days or 100h over 5 days you can farm the exact same. Unless you are actually saying that people playing more should not be rewarded more ???

An let's talk about cherry picking comment. It seems you ignored my comment and forgot to reply to me, please do so, in detail, so we can continue this civil conversation :

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dwqrf#0717 schrieb:

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Z3RoNightMare#7140 schrieb:

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dwqrf#0717 schrieb:

You are the one trying so hard to change a good game into your own fantasy game. You can't even admit that if you keep dying in a video game it's probably your own fault ; how could you ever admit your fantasy vision is flawed?

You are the one trying so hard to change a grindy game into your own hardcore fantasy game. You can't even admit that if you keep grinding in a video game it's probably your own fault ; how could you ever admit your hardcore fantasy vision is flawed?

What am I trying to change exactly ?

LOOOL.

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1453R#7804 schrieb:

You want the death penalty to be completely and utterly identical in every last single respect.

I and many others would be perfectly fine with this. There is no good reason to make the softcore death penalty more punitive without a gameplay system built around a different penalty that justifies it. Even then, it's possible that such a system is just arguably bad. I'd happily settle for 3 attempts per player per map with infinite town portal (just don't let people portal inside boss arena to avoid abuse). After 3 deaths, it bricks and requires another waystone.

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You want the overall mapping experience to be completely and utterly identical in every last single respect.

Incorrect. I want PoE2's mapping experience, I want to see what it does, what it leads to, how it grows. I overall enjoy it by comparison because it feels much more player driven. And to remind you, the topic at hand is punative death penalties, not endgame's overall design. I've made it clear I want one-attempt removed from Campaign, too. If you would bother to actually read what I am saying instead of building a strawman in your mind, we could maybe actually have a productive conversation, but this is trying my patience and I'm ready to just ignore you like I have others.

"

I imagine you're also one who wants the "crafting" system to be completely and utterly identical in every last single respect.

Fuck no, PoE1's currencies and crafting systems were atrociously bad. I've popped the equivalent of 800 chaos orbs on ONE ITEM and never got it to roll an upgrade, and I didn't even have an amazing piece of gear to begin with. And then every other system was just RNG on RNG on RNG, you basically just picked the RNG you liked (or tolerated the most) and went with it. They always felt just as rewarding as just running another juicer that would barely give back the currency I used. The current system at least has a good basis. But, currency and crafting has nothing to do with whether the current state of death penalties are appropriate for softcore.

"

Six portals with massive XP loss on death is a dumb stupid mechanic that can stay buried in the dregs of the past. Eliminate XP loss on death, retain one portal, and if people want to sustain T15s forever they need to get good enough to run them alch-and-go at the very least. Sure, occasionally that means biffing it and eating a lost map. I'd rather lose the one map the one time than lose all the XP from the previous twenty-five maps combined from one moment of "DOOF, missed that dodge roll, fuuuuu........"

I never once over did my build's abilities in PoE1. I either found out real quick what kind of juice I can reliably handle or I had to move on. It also meant learning which bosses were bullshit unfair for my particular build, so I'd avoid specific maps. Most 6 map wipes for me were because the boss was bullshit, and even then the vast majority of those were unique maps or top end game content as my first experience with it that expected me to have 12k EHP and stupid old me I just keep playing melee characters cuz those were what I liked playing. I fucking hate PoE1's balancing because the only "challenge" is how long you can suffer getting no gear upgrades for hours on end running yellow T15 while having 60% move speed still meant enemies could catch you in attoseconds and 85% fire resist and 70+% armor still meant a boss's nigh unavoidable fire attack (especially as a melee) could one shot nearly 6k health. At least I am getting some, if uncommon, upgrades running 1/1 magic T15 and slowly but surely get closer to level 100. That doesn't change the fact sustain droughts happen and one-attempt maps actively make that worse.

Please, for the love of open beta Piety runs, stay on topic and stop being so damn accusatory. Address the argument, not the person.

That's the problem, really.

You think One Portal is unfair, overly punitive, and hurts map sustain, and want Six Portal back because PoE1.

I absolutely loathe the idea of going back to Six Portals. It feels like an absolute downgrade, backslide, and like giving up entirely on making PoE2 its own game. It both makes death utterly meaningless because you never lose anything due to having a hundred trillion attempts at every map, and makes death massively more punitive than it has any right to be because burning all hundred trillion of your attempts at a map zeroes out your XP bar and sets you back weeks of grind at higher levels. If people continue to be unreasonably assmad over One Portal and force GGG to go back to Six* Portals? They may as well just shut PoE2 down altogether and announce the abandonment of the project, because there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to keep the new game going if they're just gonna cave and go back on every single decision they made to try and make the new game a meaningfully new and different experience.

Far, far, far better to simply make waystone sustain more attainable within One Portal and do away with XP penalties on death. Race to 100 people literally never die anyways so it doesn't affect them at all, every strategy for the twenty or so people actually serious about 'Race to 100' involves doing ultra safe content in large groups to make steady, guaranteed progress. There's a reason guilds win Race to 100, not people.

Don't abandon all the things that make PoE2 a new, different, better game just because they didn't stick the landing a hundred percent out of the gates.

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1453R#7804 schrieb:

Don't abandon all the things that make PoE2 a new, different, better game just because they didn't stick the landing a hundred percent out of the gates.

Punitive death penalties do not a better game make. Reversing a death penalty decision does not make death meaningless (as you still lose exp down to "zero exp' for your level) nor does it detract from or change the multitudes of different and modernized systems. You do not magically have babillions of attempts, you have 6. You do not magically start smashing your head against content you can't reliably complete with 6 portals, you play what you can complete. Pretty sure the over juicers are a minority and either they enjoy the masochism or are much too greedy. The vast majority of us just don't want to lose the map from one dumb mistake or a zoom zoom hyper rare that suddenly smashes us in less time than it takes to blink or some random white critting a planets aligning extra damage attack you didn't see coming in the horde of 20 something other mobs when 99+% of the time the same level of juicing on the same tier of maps poses no serious threat. Your relentless hyperbole is unnecessary. If you truly feel that strongly about it, then propose a third league type, like "Veteran" or something, that lets you enjoy the punitive death penalties to your heart's content. Let the rest of us actually enjoy the game without randomly getting a giant middle finger smashed into our faces just because GGG can't balance mob power for shit. I have more fingers on one hand than times I can honestly say it was my fault I died or a clear example of being under geared since entering maps.

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1453R#7804 schrieb:

That's the problem, really.

You think One Portal is unfair, overly punitive, and hurts map sustain, and want Six Portal back because PoE1.

I absolutely loathe the idea of going back to Six Portals. It feels like an absolute downgrade, backslide, and like giving up entirely on making PoE2 its own game. It both makes death utterly meaningless because you never lose anything due to having a hundred trillion attempts at every map, and makes death massively more punitive than it has any right to be because burning all hundred trillion of your attempts at a map zeroes out your XP bar and sets you back weeks of grind at higher levels. If people continue to be unreasonably assmad over One Portal and force GGG to go back to Six* Portals? They may as well just shut PoE2 down altogether and announce the abandonment of the project, because there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to keep the new game going if they're just gonna cave and go back on every single decision they made to try and make the new game a meaningfully new and different experience.

Far, far, far better to simply make waystone sustain more attainable within One Portal and do away with XP penalties on death. Race to 100 people literally never die anyways so it doesn't affect them at all, every strategy for the twenty or so people actually serious about 'Race to 100' involves doing ultra safe content in large groups to make steady, guaranteed progress. There's a reason guilds win Race to 100, not people.

Don't abandon all the things that make PoE2 a new, different, better game just because they didn't stick the landing a hundred percent out of the gates.

Shut the game down? Stop being dramatic. The game absolutely does not have to have one portal to be good and it's own game. Heck I doubt there were many players who even knew it would be that way. I would like to see three portals. One is just stupid coupled with the xp penalty. Losing xp is enough of a punishment. I don't know why you care about maps being completed.

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dwqrf#0717 schrieb:

Actually, every single player can farm and progress at the same amount / hour. So if you have 100h over 30 days or 100h over 5 days you can farm the exact same. Unless you are actually saying that people playing more should not be rewarded more ???

One player playing for 10k hours doesn't mean someone else will.

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dwqrf#0717 schrieb:

An let's talk about cherry picking comment. It seems you ignored my comment and forgot to reply to me, please do so, in detail, so we can continue this civil conversation

You mean the same way that you keep ignoring that PoE2 endgame plays exactly like PoE1 and that clear speed is still the meta? Yeah, let's continue that topic civically.

I hope ggg stays true to their word.