XP loss should only be for the XP gained in that map

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Johny_Snow#4778 schrieb:

I like how you yourself present the issues of the game getting faster and how your solution (removing the stick) would contribute to that. Just stop pretending that you want the game to be better for casuals and admit that you just don't want to bother with playing carefully and building defenses. It is much better, trust me.

I've said the opposite: remove the (bugged) carrot, then you won't need a stick to enforce fair play. But if we've arrived at straight up interpretation twists, fine, whatever you say. If you won't read others posts, might as well not reply at all and save your time.

These discussions are recurring constantly. I'll approach the topic from a different perspective. Ladders - and that's reason enough why they won't remove the exp loss. I don't like the exp loss because it affects regular players the most, but as long as ladders exist in this form, I don't see any way they could remove exp loss.

Generic softcore leagues don't have any ladders other than community-driven like ninja. Race events can have 100% penalty and auto death every 5 min for all I care, people who play those events can handle all that and more.

Enforcing hardcore elements on softcore players in unbalanced and buggy environment is the problem.

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Echothesis#7320 schrieb:

Generic softcore leagues don't have any ladders other than community-driven like ninja. Race events can have 100% penalty and auto death every 5 min for all I care, people who play those events can handle all that and more.

Enforcing hardcore elements on softcore players in unbalanced and buggy environment is the problem.

I agree with you. Race should be only for people who want to race but nevertheless its still there
https://pathofexile2.com/ladders

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JackStrong90#1370 schrieb:

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Echothesis#7320 schrieb:

Generic softcore leagues don't have any ladders other than community-driven like ninja. Race events can have 100% penalty and auto death every 5 min for all I care, people who play those events can handle all that and more.

Enforcing hardcore elements on softcore players in unbalanced and buggy environment is the problem.

I agree with you. Race should be only for people who want to race but nevertheless its still there
https://pathofexile2.com/ladders

Lol so they made filler ladders in poe2 and can now say "our game is competitive, it even shows who had reached level 100 first". Okay, you are correct here, but how many casual players even care about those ladders. It won't change my opinion (current penalty creates way more problems than this ladder can remedy), but I can see why people would take this rating seriously.

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Echothesis#7320 schrieb:

Generic softcore leagues don't have any ladders other than community-driven like ninja. Race events can have 100% penalty and auto death every 5 min for all I care, people who play those events can handle all that and more.

Enforcing hardcore elements on softcore players in unbalanced and buggy environment is the problem.

Last time I checked, your character is not deleted when you die in softcore.

Bruh, did you read what I wrote, or did you just see "level 100" and reflexively hit the "not meant for everyone" macro?

I am not saying level 100 should be the standard for all players. I am saying the game makes 90-100 matter because it keeps handing out passive points, and those points are not just a vanity sticker.

In my build, those last points are basically the difference between:
- about +15% minion DPS, or
- about +1.5k Energy Shield

That's not "cute rounding error", that's "my build either feels finished or it doesn't". Right now I'm choosing ES because staying alive is kind of a prerequisite for leveling, funny how that works.

So when you say "level 100 is an achievement, not meant for everyone" - sure, fine, make it a flex if you want. But then make it a flex mechanically too. If 90-100 didn't give passive points and instead gave some cosmetic badge, title, ladder number, whatever, I'd agree. No reason for casuals to care.

But as long as 90-100 gives real power, it isn't just a flex. It's literally part of completing a character, and the current combo of death XP loss + zone XP penalty basically turns "finish your build" into "take a second job, try not to get oneshot by a puddle".

Also, gear already works the way you describe. Item requirements basically stop mattering past a point - you don't need level 100 boots. So why are passive points the thing that keeps scaling into the "you sneezed, lose an hour" zone?

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Exilion99#5481 schrieb:

Bruh what made you think Level 100 is the standard to achieve for all players?

Even in POE1, only a handful player ever got to level 100.

I myself only got to level 100, for 2 overall characters in the span of 3.15~3.27 leagues.

Level 100 itself in a sort of achievement, it's simply not meant for everyone.

Am I to understand that your build has absolutely maxed out mirror gear and is so perfect no changes could be made that the only way to get that 1.5k ES is to level up?

This sounds so ridiculous because in theory a character with such an optimized build and gear should not care about several passive points.

Not full mirror-every-slot, no. But we're not talking "I found a decent rare in Act 3" either. It's multi-thousand divines worth, a couple of mirrors in the pile. So yes - the next meaningful upgrades are basically in "mirror+ or don't bother" territory.

And that actually reinforces the point, not disproves it. At true endgame, everything already takes time. The XP system is the weird one because it stacks two punishments on top of that - your gains get throttled harder and harder, and your losses get bigger and bigger, for the same single death. That's not some elegant difficulty curve, that's like adding a second treadmill behind the first one, except this one occasionally yanks you backwards.

Also, gear progression and level progression are not comparable in the way you're implying.

With gear, you can grind, trade, and steadily convert time into upgrades. Even if crafting is a gambling simulator (and it is), the "loss" is currency/items - and you can always pivot. Sell, trade, farm something else, buy the upgrade, whatever. There's friction, but it's not a pure rollback of progress.

Levels don't work like that. You can't buy levels. You can't craft levels. It's only grind - with heavy XP reduction at high levels - and then a flat chunk gets deleted because you got clipped by a puddle, a lag spike, or one of the many "surprise, you're dead" moments.

So yeah, if the game wants 90-100 to be a prestige flex, then make it a prestige flex mechanically. But as long as those levels still hand out real power, treating them like they're optional vanity while the system actively punishes you for even attempting them is just backwards.

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Johny_Snow#4778 schrieb:

Am I to understand that your build has absolutely maxed out mirror gear and is so perfect no changes could be made that the only way to get that 1.5k ES is to level up?

This sounds so ridiculous because in theory a character with such an optimized build and gear should not care about several passive points.

How do you have gear so good you'd need multiple mirrors for an upgrade yet you keep dying?