ascendancy trials are TRASH content.

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Jyrlep#4788 schrieb:

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quarki#9020 schrieb:

> I can delete any pineapple boss in the game and run the juiciest T16s.
> This isn't "git gud", it's "git used to a weird mandatory minigame".

Decide please.

I get what you're trying to do here with the whole "gotcha, contradiction" routine, but it only works if you pretend words mean whatever is convenient that minute.

Ascendancy is the intro to endgame. It's the on-ramp. So why is the on-ramp shaped like a spiteful rogue-like minigame with its own rulebook, while the actual "hardest content" in the game is something I can farm half-asleep?

I just re-ran suckhamas and bricked it three times. Sure, call it a "skill issue" if that makes you feel warm inside. Meanwhile I haven't died in juiced T16s in about a week.

So let me get this straight
- Juiced T16 endgame is easy-breezy
- Mandatory intro gate to endgame is randomly punishing, time-wasting, and somehow harder

If the tutorial is harder than the final exam, that's not "git gud". That's bad design with a smug soundtrack.

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quarki#9020 schrieb:

> I get what you're trying to do here with the whole "gotcha, contradiction" routine, but it only works if you pretend words mean whatever is convenient that minute.

Wat. Literally doesn't make sense. If you don't mean something, don't say it.

> If the tutorial is harder than the final exam, that's not "git gud".

There is no "tutorial". There is no "final exam". If you can't get asc points, that's hardly the games fault. More than enough people able to get them.

But yeah, it's _always_ the games fault, if _you_ can't accomplish something.

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Jyrlep#4788 schrieb:

How are you not understanding what I'm writing? This only becomes "confusing" if you pretend words mean whatever is convenient that minute.

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Jyrlep#4788 schrieb:

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quarki#9020 schrieb:

> I get what you're trying to do here with the whole "gotcha, contradiction" routine, but it only works if you pretend words mean whatever is convenient that minute.

Wat. Literally doesn't make sense. If you don't mean something, don't say it.

> If the tutorial is harder than the final exam, that's not "git gud".

There is no "tutorial". There is no "final exam". If you can't get asc points, that's hardly the games fault. More than enough people able to get them.

But yeah, it's _always_ the games fault, if _you_ can't accomplish something.

How are you not understanding what I'm writing? This only becomes "confusing" if you pretend words mean whatever is convenient that minute.

You tried to force a choice between
"I can delete any pineapple boss in the game and run the juiciest T16s"
and
"This isn't 'git gud', it's 'git used to a weird mandatory minigame'."

That's not a choice. Those two statements can both be true at the same time.

If I can comfortably farm juiced T16s and delete Uber Arbiter, but the Ascendancy trials are still a giant pain in the ass, that's not some deep moral lesson about "skill". It's a design problem. You're taking content that most players will never beat (juiced T16s and ubers) and saying it's somehow less relevant than a mandatory gate that's supposed to be cleared on the way up.

Ascendancy trials are meant to be done before you're deep into high tier mapping. They are part of progression, not the "ultimate challenge run for bragging rights". If the expected design is "the last two Ascendancy points are the hardest content in the game", then fine, message received. For me, they already are.

So here's the actual question
Are the final Ascendancy points/trials meant to be THE most difficult part of the game?
If yes, cool, then we're done here because we just disagree on what Ascendancy is supposed to be.

PS: Yes, there is a tutorial and there is an exam. The campaign is the tutorial and the on-ramp into endgame. Higher tier maps are the tests. The "final exam" is juiced T16 bosses and uber pineapple bosses. If your "tutorial gate" is harder and more punishing than the final exam, that's not a skill curve - that's a hazing ritual.

Also, if you want to argue the point, argue the point. Dropping the "it's always the game's fault if YOU can't do something" routine is just a lazy way to dodge the actual discussion and take a swing at the person instead. Good luck with that.

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Jyrlep#4788 schrieb:

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Sakanabi#6664 schrieb:

Yeah, it's prime example of someone playing broken builds but actually being unable to do content requiring an actual skill and/or planning. Trials are good because you can't simply cheese them like the rest of the game (except for carry which should be disabled or made harder to do at least imo).

lol, no.

I'm not out here propping up some broken cheese build. I'm playing one of the most basic, intentionally boring "intended gameplay" builds imaginable - pure minions, Skeletal Storm Mages. I'm basically a stagehand for my skeletons. I mostly just exist, occasionally press "Pain Offering" when things get spicy, and otherwise "base minion damage" is enough to delete mobs - including juiced T16 bosses - in seconds.

Could I swap to some busted spectre setup and abuse the hell out of it? Sure. I chose not to. I don't enjoy leaning on loopholes. It feels like exploitation, not gameplay.

I even skipped the "weapon-swap-spawn-minions" thing because it also reads like "lol, trick the system" - forcing spawns under my feet instead of letting the game do what it's designed to do.

So yeah - your comment is prime example of assuming a bunch of stuff you don't actually know.

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JODYHiGHR0LLER#6171 schrieb:

this keeps getting derailed into a discussion about skill.
hate to break the news but nothing about either trial is hard. its just annoying, theres basically zero skill required to no touch the slowly spinning fire lol.

yes, you can stack relics.
yes, you can play builds that are more advantageous.
yes, you can do a bunch of things to essentially cheese your ascendancies.

we know, we simply dont like the mechanics.
its not a matter of ability, its a matter of will.

if i go for a steak for dinner and my waiter says "certainly sir, excellent choice. we just need you to eat a plate of brussels sprouts first"...
i will just go to a different restaurant.

could i eat them? sure. am i going to? nope.
thats where im at with poe2.

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Sakanabi#6664 schrieb:

Exactly. The only difference is that people are NOT going to another restaurant but instead stay and complain. While there are so many options lol.