Why are we punished for investing into our build

Why is it we invest into our build we are punished? You add sockets, now you have mana issues. You level up gem, now you have mana issues. You get a better weapon, now you have mana issues. Just non stop punishment for investing into our build. Honestly annoying and not fun at all. Mana still huge issue

it sounds to me that you have.. mana issues

These issues have been in the game since 0.1.

They keep saying like yeee we know its a problem but we dont want to make +skills less valuable because they are impactful.

All I gotta say to that is they need to take the bandaid off and if they want that many sources of +skills. If there are gunna stay that many ways to increase gem levels they gotta address the dmg scaling and the mana.

I think they will never address mana until sources of +skills are removed. Id love to be proven wrong and they actually properly address mana, but I dont think they will to be honest.

Their vision for the game is pressing a mana pot, having cooldowns, not spamming the same skill. Unless its an auto attack.

There should never be a scenario where you get a substantial upgrade but in reality its actually not an upgrade but rather a dps loss because you can either nolonger cast your skill due to mana, or you cannot cast your skill enough to get value before going oom. And making/forcing the player to properly balance their skill level, dps, and mana all in concert is absurd (unless for some super specific ability interaction). There are just so many restrictions to fun in poe2.

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SaulSantiago#5695 schrieb:

And making/forcing the player to properly balance their skill level, dps, and mana all in concert is absurd (unless for some super specific ability interaction). There are just so many restrictions to fun in poe2.

IMO this is kind of a staple of ARPGs really. D2 was like that too, at least on the mana hungry classes like Sorceress.

Personally I kind of prefer upgrades that are effective only in combination with horizontal advancement as well. Pure linear vertical progression (e.g.: more skill level is always an automatic pure upgrade) gets a bit too simple and uninteresting.

There's a lot of different options to solve mana issues on pretty much any build. The fact that these options need to be explored and utilized is, in my opinion, largely an asset for PoE's game design.

I agree, but have you seen the passive trees that players have used to make those builds work.

Id argue its not fun, not creative and actually invasive to some degree. But I see your point. Its on the devs to create alternative methods to solve these problems but they just havent in many cases.

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SaulSantiago#5695 schrieb:

There should never be a scenario where you get a substantial upgrade but in reality its actually not an upgrade but rather a dps loss because you can either nolonger cast your skill due to mana, or you cannot cast your skill enough to get value before going oom. And making/forcing the player to properly balance their skill level, dps, and mana all in concert is absurd (unless for some super specific ability interaction). There are just so many restrictions to fun in poe2.

There is a game like that already - Diablo 4.

100% disagree. Planning resource management is a part of making your build. If you want a less complex build system, like I said there’s already a good alternative to go play.

That being said, I would appreciate more “rollback” options - ie the ability to de-level a gem, etc. to make trial and error when making a new build a bit more forgiving and reduce the dependence on things like PoB.

But eliminating the problem of mana cost entirely would be a poor decision. Should they eliminate the complexity of having a health stat to manage too?

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pattw555#0071 schrieb:

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SaulSantiago#5695 schrieb:

There should never be a scenario where you get a substantial upgrade but in reality its actually not an upgrade but rather a dps loss because you can either nolonger cast your skill due to mana, or you cannot cast your skill enough to get value before going oom. And making/forcing the player to properly balance their skill level, dps, and mana all in concert is absurd (unless for some super specific ability interaction). There are just so many restrictions to fun in poe2.

There is a game like that already - Diablo 4.

100% disagree. Planning resource management is a part of making your build. If you want a less complex build system, like I said there’s already a good alternative to go play.

That being said, I would appreciate more “rollback” options - ie the ability to de-level a gem, etc. to make trial and error when making a new build a bit more forgiving and reduce the dependence on things like PoB.

???????????????????????????? Do you see the challenges by my name sir.

I think you actually have lots of per-concieved notions from a random comment about mana cost and skills.

Look at attack builds and see how many people do dumb shit for mana.

It gets to a point where literally the most optimal way to play is auto attack.

its OK, you convert mana to damage. Even if manacosts grow up, you are winning at damage/mana ratio. And at damage/time ratio. Which result in also dealing damage/taking damage.

While there are at least 3 supports which can help you with mana sustain: efficency, zenith, lifetap. Even having one of them or few nodes in a tree is a great tradeoff for damage supports which yields you ~20-25-30% damage boosts.