Single path maps are GARBAGE.

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Panzerstrike#1881 schrieb:

After all this is not what the near million new players paid for when they bought into their EA game.

Linear designs are boring, there is no game "world", there is no exploration,
there is only forward, backward and a tiny little hideout.

I think you're the one confused if you think people paid to play the game just to explore endgame maps after doing them 100 times each

Maybe this is alright for extremely casual players, but for anyone who plays this game every day a couple of hours a day doing the same maps, those layouts full of dead ends are just annoying

This is coming from someone who isn't a poe1 player and doesn't like poe1. Which honestly is irrelevant to say since it has nothing to do with poe1 design either way, contrary to what you seem to think

A lot of varied opinions here, I think something we can all agree on is that variety is the thing that will keep this game flourishing.

Maybe one day they will add ruthless mode for POE2 which has enormous maze-like maps. I would love to see maps become so difficult and mazelike that it feels like an achievement just to reach the boss, but that's just me, I like challenge.

I also don't care at all about being efficient because I don't measure myself up to other people and all that FOMO people get wrapped up in. I just enjoy the game for its systems, and right now one of those systems, the maps, is very much too simple. I would like to see navigation be a relevant mechanic.

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Panzerstrike#1881 schrieb:

Maybe one day they will add ruthless mode for POE2 which has enormous maze-like maps. I would love to see maps become so difficult and mazelike that it feels like an achievement just to reach the boss, but that's just me, I like challenge.

Here's the thing.....that's netiher difficult nor challenging. What you are describing are puzzle-like structures found in Zelda games and the like. But not arpgs. Difficulty doesn't come from running into dead ends or taking an hour to explore an area. That is just tedium for the sake of tedium. Neither hard nor challenging, just time consuming.

If this game boasted 4k, 3D, graphically amazing (get it, aMAZE-ing ha) environments.....sure, maybe that would be fun to explore and get lost in. Maybe even for a decently long time. But that isn't what this game is, nor ever will be.



Even you would not enjoy running those maps after the hundredth time, or even long before that. I can all but guarantee that.


**I also find it interesting that you appear to try and describe literally all of PoE 1 and it's history, as well as characterizing its players in a few posts....when it appears you haven't ever played PoE 1. Bit of an over-reach wouldn't you say?

I said mazelike AND difficult btw.

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Panzerstrike#1881 schrieb:

A lot of varied opinions here, I think something we can all agree on is that variety is the thing that will keep this game flourishing.

Maybe one day they will add ruthless mode for POE2 which has enormous maze-like maps. I would love to see maps become so difficult and mazelike that it feels like an achievement just to reach the boss, but that's just me, I like challenge.

I also don't care at all about being efficient because I don't measure myself up to other people and all that FOMO people get wrapped up in. I just enjoy the game for its systems, and right now one of those systems, the maps, is very much too simple. I would like to see navigation be a relevant mechanic.

Yeah... Please no! That sounds awful to me.

I just tried to run a few maps because I've been addicted to this game and what it promised. All the maps I've run now have been a straight shot to the boss, and man that felt bad. :(

I'm just left feeling disappointed with the lack of interest and creativity with these map designs. Its such a huge part of the game and its just so damn bland and simple.

I simply cannot understand how anyone who likes complex character development systems goes on to enjoy their map being designed like a mobile game.

Lets ask ourselves, how well is D4 doing?

Yeah... Lets not go down the same road...

A game with rng endgame drops having layouts that cause a lot of backtracking and annoying dead ends will always feel bad. If you rng to a lot of those maps as opposed to some streamer getting a lot of straight layouts where they can do 5 maps before you run 1. This would feel terrible to a lot of people.

The problem with poe is that most of the content outside of xbuild y build is divines per hour. If you have crappy layouts your divines/hr suck. If they could fix the central obsession with poe to not be d/hr then they may be able to do stuff like that.

Games that do well with puzzles like zelda/elden ring. These games have drops that just exist for the most part. You will always find rivers of blood if you know where to go to get it. There is no boss to kill or puzzle to solve to find mageblood.

Those are all valid points, especially the problem of Div/hr being the driving factor for so many peoples in game decisions and preferences. The problem is that Div/hr is not engaging or interesting gameplay for the most part. It may be interesting when you get your 1,2,3... 10th div, but by 5000 it is not exciting or interesting.

It is way more engaging or exciting to turn a corner or open a door to find a room packed with monsters and a 6P essence monster. Or something that makes you back up like "Holy S*** that looks like a dangerous pack".

The problem is that it makes the game feels small, limited, oversimplistic and one dimensional when the only way you can go is forward. I just ran 'Woodland' which in my opinion is one of the best map layouts in the game (that is if your priority is not Div/Hr). There are so many branching paths that backtracking is not needed, beautiful scenery and the full freedom of which direction you choose to explore in.

Efficiency is not a pillar of good game design on its own, nor is it compelling. It just something competitive players feel compelled to do to stay competitive. That being said map design can foster and allow for efficient gameplay without restricting or entirely removing movement dimensions from the game or over simplifying layouts to the point of homogenization.

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Lonnie455Rich#2087 schrieb:

A game with rng endgame drops having layouts that cause a lot of backtracking and annoying dead ends will always feel bad. If you rng to a lot of those maps as opposed to some streamer getting a lot of straight layouts where they can do 5 maps before you run 1. This would feel terrible to a lot of people.

The problem with poe is that most of the content outside of xbuild y build is divines per hour. If you have crappy layouts your divines/hr suck. If they could fix the central obsession with poe to not be d/hr then they may be able to do stuff like that.

Very much disagree with these statements.

FOMO (aka: div/hr) is a problem that individuals have, not the game. The game doesn't force, create, or need to address this in any way with it's design. That is a PLAYER problem that they need to address with themselves.

We are not in any competition with each other, there is no race, there is no (real) timer, etc. Div/Hr and comparing yourself to streamers or other players is a complete SELF-CREATED mental issue.


Maze map layouts have NOTHING to do with div/hr or anything of the sort. Or at least, not entirely. It just feels bad PERIOD to run into a bunch of dead ends and have your time be wasted. Whether you are a slow or fast player, whether you are juicing or not juicing, whether you get lucky drops or not. The simple act of being STOPPED or having to walk back through things you already killed is just not fun to do. For anyone.

It's about those types of designs killing momentum and causing long periods of forced disengagement. Not because of arbitrary "but he is maaking more currency" nonsense.

Fair enough, it doesnt feel good to have to backtrack.

I agree with that!

But, can't we see some more maps which are interconnected enough with passages and doors that you can clear the whole map without having to retrace your steps and not single winding paths?

They are making them more and more common and removing degrees of freedom from the game. This is a problem, this is not how you grow your community or game.