They also has 1 button macros set up for entire rotations minus personals and consumables.... You might be fine with the piano key play style but many are not for long periods of times.
Not my experience back when I used to play it, sorry. If that's what it is now, it's just as trash.
Secondly, the pay to win part isnt they main reason they fail. Its the same thing of people dont want to have to full attention a piano keyboard for long grinds. They want to mind off grind. Those games fail (like most if not all mmo's in the past 15 years outside of wow) because they are all trying to be action packed 3D fighting. The idea of tab targeting is basically gone in most of them now instead its like playing marval rivals. No one wants to do that for hours on end in an rpg.
You're joking, right? I'm literally not playing any MMORPG right now because they're either outdated, with bad combat or because they're pay to win. You're seriously trying to spin everything around your point even if it makes 0 sense? You people are unbelievable. It's like I'm watching Trump speaking. Just stop already, it's embarrasing.
I once again urge you to read the title of the thread, and understand that I don't care about your opinion. It's just your opinion, not facts.
You know what an actual fact is? The fact that GGG said we'll have good and engaging combat. That's a fact. And that is what this thread is about.
you also have a Global Cooldown in mmo so u aint really spamming buttons, not like say you when you are stutter stepping in an arpg
some good points about the business model for PO£2 and it is absolutely related to the problem of combat and loot grinders
the whole thing is designed to flood you with items to promote the sale of stash tabs.
look at the crafting changes, instead of streamlining it or altering what we already had they added more currency which means more stuff to clutter your stash
even the merchant tab "upgrade" removes your stash tabs, a shitty move by GGG, and caught out many players.
sure they need to make money but imagine the clutter we will have when the game finally releases. I blame the "free to play" model, thats also why there's so much busy work before you start playing and lack of QoL (eg. inventory size. need to identify everything).
i dont think engaging combat can exist (apart from bosses) in that business model
where we are heading is a campaign and then copy and paste POE1 endgame, this will please most of the streamers (who have way to much influence) as they are almost all POE1 vets.
it's a shame but that's the reality
While I do agree that the business model is a tad shitty, and I would've preferred they went a different route... I don't think it's as bad as people make it out to be. Aside from that, combat still has nothing to do with how many items they can throw or not at you. So, again, just an opinion.
I agree that streamers are pleased by the mindless type game/farming the most though, which is why they pushed super hard against better combat. They are almost single-handedly responsible for the major pushback ever since they were given the chance to test the game at Exilecon years ago and provided terrible feedback. The PoE1 streamers at least.
That being said, I'm starting to see a slight shift even on their side, as they've started to grow bored themselves of this.
The one button macros started back in BC days....
The bad combat mmo's is exactly what I was describing. The ones I am talking about are the you aim every spell, fire arrows like dark souls, having enemies flying around and the dashy style combats. That is why they fail. Pay to win is absolutely a massive part of why but so is this trying to blend different genres into one. They are all failing. Not to mention most modern gamers could never have played a game like vanilla wow or everquest or other pure grind games like those. That is the other element causing the mmo failures. They moved too far away from the original recipe to try and be some action combat game. Its failed.
And Trump? Really? Politics into a game and you say I am the one making not sense?
EDIT: No reply to the POE2 part? The fact that they said what you said but day 1 added all swarm events completely contradicting themselves?
Zuletzt bearbeitet von Soulsniper1313#7576 um 19.09.2025, 16:17:59
The real concept about loot in poe 1 is to stimulate your primal instincts to collect things that have a value, working towards a goal. Albeit it is not real, but neither is the modern currency system.
Just youtube "ziggy d mirror drop" and watch his reaction, the dopamine and adrenaline he gets from the loot that have dropped, his face turning from ghastly pale to a reddish, like a exalted maiden in love.
The gamers that enjoy poe 1 does it waste time under nice circumstances, a cup of coffee infront of the screen after a long day of work, to dream away, to reach goals that doesnt mean anything while you partly relax and get those dopamine kicks when a gamble or lucky chance comes your way. Mostly to relax.
My question is why do you wish for a endless hyper-focused near death battle simulator? And why dont you just play other twenty games that have a very good bar set in that regard?
Ehm.. you do realize that's gambling addiction which is really bad for you, right? Even if money isn't involved.
Ehm.. you do realize that's gambling addiction which is really bad for you, right? Even if money isn't involved.
"
Addiction definition.
Addiction is a neuropsychological disorder characterized by a persistent and intense urge to use a drug or engage in a behavior that produces natural reward, despite substantial harm and other negative consequences.
Explain the substantial harm I have suffered or the negative consequences. You dont know me and that reply is, or atleast should be, below you.
Focus on the discussion and try to reply and make comments that are relevant to the subject. Dont make it personal, there is no good reason for it.
Ehm.. you do realize that's gambling addiction which is really bad for you, right? Even if money isn't involved.
"
Addiction definition.
Addiction is a neuropsychological disorder characterized by a persistent and intense urge to use a drug or engage in a behavior that produces natural reward, despite substantial harm and other negative consequences.
Explain the substantial harm I have suffered or the negative consequences. You dont know me and that reply is, or atleast should be, below you.
Focus on the discussion and try to reply and make comments that are relevant to the subject. Dont make it personal, there is no good reason for it.
I was quite serious about it. It's not the first time I seen this as well. I've made a thread discussing it previously. It somehow didn't cross my mind again untill now. Of course I don't understand you guys. You're fundamentally thinking of it from a place i could never understand since I don't have such addictions and just want a good game.
Well if the power ceiling is low then items can not give that much power. The difference between a best in slot item and a average item is set at max 100%. As in my example. Why would I spend weeks of grinding to get 100% stronger...? If the maximum is higher then it would break the engaging combat. The numbers are arbitrary, im trying to just explain the concept.
The point is, items can still give a lot of power if you need it. If - lets take arbitrary numbers here - every waystone tier scales up monster toughness by 50%, you would feel terrible doing waystones 3 tiers too high for your gear. They would be 3.3x stronger than the current ones. Since their damage also goes up (not by the same scaling tho) it would also punish you harder for mistakes. You would be forced to farm a waystone tier you are comfortable doing - until you have better gear and go into harder content. Its a loop you see, just instead of mindless slaughter you would have actual combat and a need for better gear...
In the end you - again - would need a power increase of around 1.5^15 for maps, thats 437x. The only difference being, you actually need the gear to beat the content. Yea, this might make the problem of “why don't I just farm lower tier maps then, because I could zoom through maps that are 5 times lower than my build”. As said earlier, the 50% was just arbitrary — it might be a bit much. Also it might need more change in the loot you get between small differences of map tiers. Which might not even be terrible — instead of getting lucky and dropping a insane weapon at t1 maps that you'll use till t15, you will already get and need an upgrade at t5 maps, for example. As for currency — new currency every few tiers (there should be enough available with all the tiered currency rn), better chances for it that make up for the time, and not too much ms that you can clear low tier maps in 2 seconds.
This would make the game from the start of mapping until you do your first pinnacle boss a lot longer, yea. But shouldn't doing the pinnacle bosses be some kind of goal — one that gives you the feeling of beating the game?
Then there could be the fully juiced content — even harder than pinnacle bosses. For the people who want to min-max the shit out of their character, and a use for pinnacle boss uniques.
If the difference between average gear and "better gear" forces you to play perfect for ten minutes versus a average boss fight then alot of players would not even bother.
It was not the example of average gear against better gear, but underleveled gear against average gear. You should be punished if you skip from t1 to t10 maps, at least if at league start or in SSF. You should feel a need to play t1 through t10 maps for some time — not hours upon hours but something appropriate.
The "different purposes" must increase your power, or else it is a waste of time. Making a spell blue instead of yellow without anything else is just cosmetic. Make a example of what you mean with that, I fail to understand.
For example - rares in the early part of the game would be rather simple. They should not only get stronger in stats, but also in what they can do. As example, if a mage enemy starts spawning mana-drain zones on you — you will need something to deal with that. If bosses give you less time for free attacks, you might get more ways to attack while disengaging, for example. More use for when you cc a boss. Unlocking some kind of spell that needs its time and is hard to play against everything that moves without you locking it in place. Support gems should be a way to modify gems into more conditional use.
Lets take comet for example. If there was a support gem that makes it deal significantly more damage, but reduces the radius and increases the time it falls down maybe add a cooldown to prevent abuse, it would kinda fit only as "use this when the enemy can't escape" skill. If you got a bow and need something for multiple enemies, you will take a more projectile support, which does decrease the damage, tho. Of course some more simple small damage boosts are also needed, I don't think it works without in any way. But gems like Rakiata's are just terrible design, best in slot for literally anything that does elemental damage, takes away any need for pen in your build and just makes it do much more damage. The problem right now is that you require only one skill — because it can do everything and it's the easiest. Some support skills just might change the identity from skills - make it more useful to build cc instead of damage, make it better against multiple enemies instead of single targets, change their damage type, make it usable without mana with reduced damage,...
Zuletzt bearbeitet von KäsePizza#3007 um 19.09.2025, 16:51:00
I was quite serious about it. It's not the first time I seen this as well. I've made a thread discussing it previously. It somehow didn't cross my mind again untill now. Of course I don't understand you guys. You're fundamentally thinking of it from a place i could never understand since I don't have such addictions and just want a good game.
You are telling me that I suffer from a neuropsychological disorder and should seek help... because I enjoy playing path of exile 1?
Are you drunk?
My grandmother liked to collect shells on the beach, she always got happy when she found a especially beautiful one. She released dopamine while searching for things without any real value under relaxing circumstances. Would you say that she should have had looked for professional help?
What even is this, we are wildly off-topic and this doesnt even makes any sense...
I was quite serious about it. It's not the first time I seen this as well. I've made a thread discussing it previously. It somehow didn't cross my mind again untill now. Of course I don't understand you guys. You're fundamentally thinking of it from a place i could never understand since I don't have such addictions and just want a good game.
Idk... everyone should enjoy what they want. It's not like everyone who likes more complex gameplay is superior to people who can play vampire survivors for 1000h... Yea, people might be addicted to the feeling of divines dropping - but thats most games. Everyone gets his dopamine spikes - or whatever - from different experiences, in some way we are all slightly broken in the head. Hard not to be nowadays. And you say you don't have the addictions, you just want a good game. One that aims at what you enjoy, at your vulnerability to addictions. Not saying everyone who plays a game is addicted, addiction starts when you lose the ability to set priorities. But in some way we all play to have a good time or smth, no need for this here...
The point is, items can still give a lot of power if you need it. If - lets take arbitrary numbers here - every waystone tier scales up monster toughness by 50%, you would feel terrible doing waystones 3 tiers too high for your gear. They would be 3.3x stronger than the current ones. Since their damage also goes up (not by the same scaling tho) it would also punish you harder for mistakes. You would be forced to farm a waystone tier you are comfortable doing - until you have better gear and go into harder content. Its a loop you see, just instead of mindless slaughter you would have actual combat and a need for better gear...
Trade, my friend, trade... If a player then buys items from one tier above, or two, then the engaging combat is gone, he will blasts entire screens... that is the problem... Or you would have to restrict trade or make soulbound items, and that destroy the value of items, as they are valued by what value the community attribute to it.
I will have to quote Chris Wilson on the subject;
"
Items Matter. Trade is Important.
When we started developing Path of Exile in 2006, we identified several key design pillars. These are fundamental philosophies chosen to guide our design decisions throughout development. One of these was that "items matter". Items are a player's reward for playing Path of Exile. They're the primary way of measuring progress in a league. A person with vastly more in-game wealth has often played longer than someone with a higher level character. They also matter because if a player had better items, then they'd be able to build more powerful characters, play harder content, and be viewed as richer and more successful within the game. The acquisition of items is why people play Action RPGs. Chances are, if you're reading this, you understand why it's important that items matter because your Path of Exile items mean a lot to you as well.
For items to matter, it's important that they can be traded to other players. It's important that you could give the item to the other player, if they were able to convince you into it. For this reason, almost nothing in Path of Exile is bound to your account. Even in Solo Self-Found mode, which doesn't allow trading, items can be moved at will into the regular trading leagues so that you can benefit from their value if desired.
Then there could be the fully juiced content — even harder than pinnacle bosses. For the people who want to min-max the shit out of their character, and a use for pinnacle boss uniques.
That implies these players will blast screens in average content, and that will be the meta.
For example - rares in the early part of the game would be rather simple. They should not only get stronger in stats, but also in what they can do. As example, if a mage enemy starts spawning mana-drain zones on you — you will need something to deal with that. If bosses give you less time for free attacks, you might get more ways to attack while disengaging, for example. More use for when you cc a boss. Unlocking some kind of spell that needs its time and is hard to play against everything that moves without you locking it in place. Support gems should be a way to modify gems into more conditional use.
Lets take comet for example. If there was a support gem that makes it deal significantly more damage, but reduces the radius and increases the time it falls down maybe add a cooldown to prevent abuse, it would kinda fit only as "use this when the enemy can't escape" skill. If you got a bow and need something for multiple enemies, you will take a more projectile support, which does decrease the damage, tho. Of course some more simple small damage boosts are also needed, I don't think it works without in any way. But gems like Rakiata's are just terrible design, best in slot for literally anything that does elemental damage, takes away any need for pen in your build and just makes it do much more damage.
Perhaps it can be done with clever mechanics, exclusively defence ones, but then there is the risk the game developes to a pain-simulator for the below-average player, that will spend his existance in a constant state of being debuffed and utterly destroyed. But yes, there is alot of things in the game that makes it more wild than PoE 1 at the moment, but I hope there will be balance patch in the future, a large one.
I was quite serious about it. It's not the first time I seen this as well. I've made a thread discussing it previously. It somehow didn't cross my mind again untill now. Of course I don't understand you guys. You're fundamentally thinking of it from a place i could never understand since I don't have such addictions and just want a good game.
You are telling me that I suffer from a neuropsychological disorder and should seek help... because I enjoy playing path of exile 1?
Are you drunk?
My grandmother liked to collect shells on the beach, she always got happy when she found a especially beautiful one. She released dopamine while searching for things without any real value under relaxing circumstances. Would you say that she should have had looked for professional help?
What even is this, we are wildly off-topic and this doesnt even makes any sense...
Focus man, focus on the subject!
I'm not telling you to do anything. Just pointing out the issue which is obvious from your own words. Which were similar to the ones that made me make that thread in the first place. You fundamentally don't see gear as a stepping stone for another purpose which is exactly what gear is.
Your grandmother collecting shells is not comparable to this... unless you collect gear and loot just to... look at it? For collection purposes?? Your grandmother doesn't collect shells for dopamine hits you know... such a strange comparison too.
"Sigh"
Zuletzt bearbeitet von IonSugeRau1#1069 um 19.09.2025, 17:02:19
