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Right, so your solution is "just throw mechanics at Standard without balancing them"? That's exactly the kind of thinking that leads to broken implementations going core. You're proving my point about meaningful feedback - if GGG doesn't need to balance for Standard, then Standard feedback is worthless for development.
And no, most legacy gear owners don't automatically jump to leagues. Plenty stick around precisely because they want to keep using their broken toys. The fact that you think everyone with good gear migrates shows you don't understand the Standard playerbase.
Your examples of mechanics that never made it to Standard actually support my argument. Those were either too broken to implement properly or required complete reworks that made them unrecognizable. That's what happens when you design around two completely different power levels.
The "just make it optional" approach sounds nice until you realize it fragments the playerbase and creates balance nightmares. Either the content is trivial for geared players or impossible for normal ones.
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Standard feedback is worthless for development.
I would kindly ask to bring an example of feedback that could be provided from Standard players, if you mentioned it.
I'm not going to spoon-feed you examples when you clearly haven't been paying attention to Standard discussions. But since you asked - itemization feedback on how new uniques interact with legacy variants, endgame scaling issues when you have actual gear to test with, and progression balance when you're not starting from zero every few months.
The real question is why you're even asking when you seem to think Standard feedback doesn't matter anyway. If you actually played Standard instead of just theorizing about it, you'd know what kind of feedback comes from that environment.
And frankly, if GGG thought Standard feedback was completely worthless, they wouldn't bother maintaining the league at all. But here we are.
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Beitrag vonBlooper#6330am 13.07.2025, 11:49:12
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Nice strawman there buddy.
Don't missuse words you fail to grasp. Every argument you've made leading up to that post regarding the usefulness of a given set of data has been in relation to server economy:
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League mechanics need proper testing with fresh economies
The whole point of leagues is to test new systems without breaking the permanent economy.
when half of it comes from an environment with completely different power levels and economic conditions. Testing a mechanic that drops currency when Standard players are sitting on thousands of divines versus league players scraping together alchs is going to give you wildly skewed feedback
If you really want to test with your mirror-tier gear
I'm saying polluted data from a broken economy isn't useful for anyone.
when that data is corrupted by exploits and dupes
I suggest you take your own advice and
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if GGG doesn't need to balance for Standard, then Standard feedback is worthless for development.
Thus it follows that if GGG does balance for Standard, then Standard feedback is valuable.
Zuletzt bearbeitet von LeFlesh#9979 um 13.07.2025, 12:28:22
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Beitrag vonLeFlesh#9979am 13.07.2025, 12:24:43
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Right, so your solution is "just throw mechanics at Standard without balancing them"? That's exactly the kind of thinking that leads to broken implementations going core. You're proving my point about meaningful feedback - if GGG doesn't need to balance for Standard, then Standard feedback is worthless for development.
And no, most legacy gear owners don't automatically jump to leagues. Plenty stick around precisely because they want to keep using their broken toys. The fact that you think everyone with good gear migrates shows you don't understand the Standard playerbase.
Your examples of mechanics that never made it to Standard actually support my argument. Those were either too broken to implement properly or required complete reworks that made them unrecognizable. That's what happens when you design around two completely different power levels.
The "just make it optional" approach sounds nice until you realize it fragments the playerbase and creates balance nightmares. Either the content is trivial for geared players or impossible for normal ones.
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The "just make it optional" approach sounds nice until you realize it fragments the playerbase and creates balance nightmares
It's how POE mechanics works, you could ignore breach and stronbgoxes, it's not a balance nightmare.
Also, I would tell s secret for you: every mechanic fragment the playerbase because each players like different things. It's completely normal. You've bring Sanctum as an example of "polished" league, is it not split the playerbase? You've just prove my point
Naaah, you've just ignorant and don't know how POE works.
I don't know from where did you find that GGG listening Standard players feedback, that's even sound like a joke, but if they are - it's not actually visible because they have plenty of times to revert 0.2 balance changes which broke builds for Standard players.
Well, your point of view that Standard players just dont deserved new content for 6+ months and in some cases they don't deserve it at all. I got it
But, please, when players who plays Standard asking for new content do not gas-light them with "You don't understand, it's a protection, we don't want that you got negative player experience, you'll get content polished", it's just rude.
P.S. Are you forgot you position that game is in EA. In EA you're expect to see major issues, balance issues, connection issues am I wrong? Or you like to swap position for different topics? :)
Mechanics like Breach are optional, but they're designed with the entire playerbase in mind from day one. There's a massive difference between "optional content balanced for everyone" and "league content that might work in Standard if we're lucky."
Your Sanctum example is weak - it went through proper testing and balancing before core integration. That's exactly what I'm advocating for. Meanwhile you're suggesting they just dump whatever league mechanics into Standard without consideration.
And spare me the "ignorant" nonsense when you're the one pushing for rushed implementations. The 0.2 balance changes you mentioned? Perfect example of what happens when things aren't properly tested across different environments.
EA doesn't mean "anything goes" - it means iterative improvement, not throwing broken systems at different game modes and hoping for the best. If you want new content immediately regardless of quality, temp leagues exist for a reason.
The real gas-lighting here is pretending that asking for proper implementation is somehow anti-Standard player.
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EA doesn't mean "anything goes" - it means iterative improvement, not throwing broken systems at different game modes and hoping for the best.
So, if server doesn't work and you couldn't play, or balance changes broke your build, or the game itself has a lot of major issues - it's ok because the game is in EA, wait for release. Unless we are talking about adding some extra content to players on Standard for them to have fun or have some problems - in that case "EA doesn't mean anything goes". That's a really good argumentative position from someone ofc who's a "real player"
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Meanwhile you're suggesting they just dump whatever league mechanics into Standard without consideration.
Yep, exactly the same how it works with balance changes, the same how 0.2 balance patch broke a lof of Standard builds, the same how new expansion was added in POE1. Should those changes be passed by proper testing - yep they should; should developers concentrate on Standard more - no, Smoke testing to see is content working or not is enough.
It's not a big deal, if new content be broken for a while - it wouldn't be such a problem.
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Meanwhile you're suggesting they just dump whatever league mechanics into Standard without consideration.
Yep, because you playing new content on league, or have a chance to not see it at all, without "proper implementation" or "polishing", how it was with Scourge.
At least, while the game is in EA - you could experiment with some stuff like adding league content to Standard players and see are players satisfied or not. If they weren't satisifed one time, other time - just don't do it on a third time.
Isn't it already was happened with Wisps and Exiles, or you missed it :)?
If you use "EA" excuse - be more open-minded. Thank you.
P.S. Standard players, do not deserve that kind of "deffence" and "protection", they deserve new content for supporting the game.
P.S.S Sorry for some strong language from my side, but youre position from my point of view is a strange and aggressive towards Standard players. I hope we've understand eachother
Zuletzt bearbeitet von ForsesGIT#6499 um 13.07.2025, 12:51:19
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I don't know who typed this but you need a math check. That's not 4 months update cycle, that's 5 months. 0.2 released very early April, you are releasing 0.3 super late August. It's not even August, you could say early September or something.
I don't know, especially after giving us the worst league launch (0.2) which a lot of people quit in 2 weeks, you could give us the update earlier. 5 months is not cool tbh, many of us here for poe2 but you are acting like all of us play poe1 and enjoy it.
I don't enjoy it, poe2 is way more fun. Unlucky that it's coming at early September tbh, disappointed hard.
+1
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Major updates for Path of Exile 2 are released every 4 months.
You mean every 5 months.
29th is almost a month apart form 4th.
And even 4 months is ridiculously long timg, considering the fact that the league usually fizzles out in 1.5-2 months max.
You should plan some kind of half-league update, or a major event to be released two months after main league start to give it a second wind.
+1. 147 Days feels more like half a year than a quarter... specially since people quit after 2 months (max 3 months, right now game is officially dead (8k~ avg players max)
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They said august. When will it be released? August. So who isn't keeping their promises?
Firstly, it's not August yet, they not released 0.3 yet, GGG could announce anything on forum, text anything, whatever, not everyone are trust them, it's normal.
Secondly, they didn't do nothing yet with their promises being kept as in POE1, as in POE2 - people blaming them, it's simple. Unfortunatelly, I could bring a dozen of GGG failing promises :(.
Also, as you can see not everyone are satisfied with announce sumbission and dates, it's also normal.
We haven't any updates regarding "DDOS" situation, so are we gona play 0.3 with disconnection and rollback, I don't know
We haven't any info regarding POE1 possible bugfixes for 3.26 as well (It's ok because it's not a POE1 subforum)
But they, not me, filed information in the announce like they threw a worst league to the POE1 players so far and left it with no more fixes for league.
You're moving goalposts here. You literally said "keeping promises" and when I pointed out they promised August and we're still in July, suddenly it's about trust and dozen other issues.
The DDOS stuff sucks, sure, but acting like 0.3 is already failed because of server issues from EA launch is pretty dramatic. And bringing up POE1 league complaints in a POE2 thread? Come on.
Either wait for August like they said or don't, but at least be consistent with your complaints.
lmao "August" as if the 29th of August counts. and you know that someone told them "if you release it on the 30/31 its gonna seem like a copout of the date" so they said "FINE, 29th" which is 100% a copout.
August release means the 15th of august at most. late august means 15+ and early august means before the 15th.
Also, its funny how in other comments you were saying you aren't blindly defending GGG in every post and here I find you antagonizing people for fun / blindly defending GGG (i dont know which is worse)
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Nice strawman there buddy.
Don't missuse words you fail to grasp. Every argument you've made leading up to that post regarding the usefulness of a given set of data has been in relation to server economy:
"
League mechanics need proper testing with fresh economies
The whole point of leagues is to test new systems without breaking the permanent economy.
when half of it comes from an environment with completely different power levels and economic conditions. Testing a mechanic that drops currency when Standard players are sitting on thousands of divines versus league players scraping together alchs is going to give you wildly skewed feedback
If you really want to test with your mirror-tier gear
I'm saying polluted data from a broken economy isn't useful for anyone.
when that data is corrupted by exploits and dupes
I suggest you take your own advice and
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if GGG doesn't need to balance for Standard, then Standard feedback is worthless for development.
Thus it follows that if GGG does balance for Standard, then Standard feedback is valuable.
Rich coming from someone who can't spell "misuse" correctly.
Look, cherry-picking quotes doesn't magically make your logic sound. You're basically arguing that because I mentioned economic factors, somehow that invalidates the entire point about data quality. That's not how this works.
Standard feedback isn't "valuable" just because GGG might glance at it - it's still fundamentally flawed data from a broken testing environment. Your little "thus it follows" conclusion is a non-sequitur. GGG balancing around Standard's existence doesn't make Standard players' feedback on new mechanics any less warped by their inflated resources and legacy gear.
Try harder next time.
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Beitrag vonBlooper#6330am 13.07.2025, 15:19:26
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Mechanics like Breach are optional, but they're designed with the entire playerbase in mind from day one. There's a massive difference between "optional content balanced for everyone" and "league content that might work in Standard if we're lucky."
Your Sanctum example is weak - it went through proper testing and balancing before core integration. That's exactly what I'm advocating for. Meanwhile you're suggesting they just dump whatever league mechanics into Standard without consideration.
And spare me the "ignorant" nonsense when you're the one pushing for rushed implementations. The 0.2 balance changes you mentioned? Perfect example of what happens when things aren't properly tested across different environments.
EA doesn't mean "anything goes" - it means iterative improvement, not throwing broken systems at different game modes and hoping for the best. If you want new content immediately regardless of quality, temp leagues exist for a reason.
The real gas-lighting here is pretending that asking for proper implementation is somehow anti-Standard player.
"
EA doesn't mean "anything goes" - it means iterative improvement, not throwing broken systems at different game modes and hoping for the best.
So, if server doesn't work and you couldn't play, or balance changes broke your build, or the game itself has a lot of major issues - it's ok because the game is in EA, wait for release. Unless we are talking about adding some extra content to players on Standard for them to have fun or have some problems - in that case "EA doesn't mean anything goes". That's a really good argumentative position from someone ofc who's a "real player"
"
Meanwhile you're suggesting they just dump whatever league mechanics into Standard without consideration.
Yep, exactly the same how it works with balance changes, the same how 0.2 balance patch broke a lof of Standard builds, the same how new expansion was added in POE1. Should those changes be passed by proper testing - yep they should; should developers concentrate on Standard more - no, Smoke testing to see is content working or not is enough.
It's not a big deal, if new content be broken for a while - it wouldn't be such a problem.
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Meanwhile you're suggesting they just dump whatever league mechanics into Standard without consideration.
Yep, because you playing new content on league, or have a chance to not see it at all, without "proper implementation" or "polishing", how it was with Scourge.
At least, while the game is in EA - you could experiment with some stuff like adding league content to Standard players and see are players satisfied or not. If they weren't satisifed one time, other time - just don't do it on a third time.
Isn't it already was happened with Wisps and Exiles, or you missed it :)?
If you use "EA" excuse - be more open-minded. Thank you.
P.S. Standard players, do not deserve that kind of "deffence" and "protection", they deserve new content for supporting the game.
P.S.S Sorry for some strong language from my side, but youre position from my point of view is a strange and aggressive towards Standard players. I hope we've understand eachother
I get that you think proper testing is some holy grail, but you're missing the point entirely. Standard players have been waiting 6+ months for ANY new content while temp league players get fresh mechanics every 3 months. Your "proper testing" argument is just another way to justify keeping Standard as a second-class citizen.
You say mechanics like Breach are "designed with the entire playerbase in mind" - that's revisionist history. Most league mechanics were tested primarily in temp leagues and then adjusted for Standard later. The process you're describing as ideal literally didn't exist for most of POE's history.
And honestly? The 0.2 balance changes broke builds regardless of "proper testing." Your perfect implementation process didn't prevent that disaster, so maybe the issue isn't about Standard getting untested content - it's about GGG's general approach to balance.
EA means we should expect issues, but apparently only temp league players deserve to experience new content WITH those issues. Standard players just get to sit on the sidelines watching everyone else have fun until some mythical "polish" phase that may never come.
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Beitrag vonBlooper#6330am 13.07.2025, 15:24:01
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Firstly, it's not August yet, they not released 0.3 yet, GGG could announce anything on forum, text anything, whatever, not everyone are trust them, it's normal.
Secondly, they didn't do nothing yet with their promises being kept as in POE1, as in POE2 - people blaming them, it's simple. Unfortunatelly, I could bring a dozen of GGG failing promises :(.
Also, as you can see not everyone are satisfied with announce sumbission and dates, it's also normal.
We haven't any updates regarding "DDOS" situation, so are we gona play 0.3 with disconnection and rollback, I don't know
We haven't any info regarding POE1 possible bugfixes for 3.26 as well (It's ok because it's not a POE1 subforum)
But they, not me, filed information in the announce like they threw a worst league to the POE1 players so far and left it with no more fixes for league.
You're moving goalposts here. You literally said "keeping promises" and when I pointed out they promised August and we're still in July, suddenly it's about trust and dozen other issues.
The DDOS stuff sucks, sure, but acting like 0.3 is already failed because of server issues from EA launch is pretty dramatic. And bringing up POE1 league complaints in a POE2 thread? Come on.
Either wait for August like they said or don't, but at least be consistent with your complaints.
lmao "August" as if the 29th of August counts. and you know that someone told them "if you release it on the 30/31 its gonna seem like a copout of the date" so they said "FINE, 29th" which is 100% a copout.
August release means the 15th of august at most. late august means 15+ and early august means before the 15th.
Also, its funny how in other comments you were saying you aren't blindly defending GGG in every post and here I find you antagonizing people for fun / blindly defending GGG (i dont know which is worse)
saying "August means 15th at most" is just making up your own definitions. August is August - the 29th is still August whether you like it or not.
And I'm not "antagonizing for fun" - I'm calling out inconsistent arguments. First it was about broken promises, now it's about what counts as "real" August. Pick a lane.
Sure, late August feels like they're pushing it to the wire, but that's still within what they said. If you want to be mad about something, at least be mad about what actually happened instead of moving the goalposts every time someone points out the timeline.
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Beitrag vonBlooper#6330am 13.07.2025, 15:27:34
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Other than "oh, we are so, so sorry!" would be interesting to read even a bit of WHAT was a reason of this delay. What should we expect.
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