PoE Forums Are Broken – How to Fix Toxicity & Engagement

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Timbo Zero#8289 schrieb:

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Gang5ter15#1071 schrieb:

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Zanman1224#9792 schrieb:

I understand the frustration... but there is a person whose job it is to sift through the nonsense posts for actual feedback and forward that feedback to who needs it. It also serves as a place for people to just vent.

Thats not really a reason to not improve the forum. For the actual users its horrible. Its the same posts over and over and over again. Actual Feedback gets lost in the thousands of pages of the Feedback Sections. There are 24000 Threads and i dont think an Employee or multiple have the time to go through each of them and find actual Feedback.
The Forum at least needs Moderation. Be it Volunteers of employees. But Improvements are long overdue.

There is massively more than 24000 threads in this feedback section alone, GGG just cull the interface to only show the last 50 pages (the rest is still there but tough to find unless you posted in such an older thread and use your post history).

No there are 24k threads and 126k posts

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But venting in the feedback section? Idk... I vent in guild chat.
"Venting" is most of the time emotional and "feedback" based on that is rarely useable.

companies should be glad they get any feedback at all. in many industries you never hear from your customers. while it is very nice to have that feedback well thought out constructive it is exception rather than the rule.

many on this forum call the people who are venting whiners and babies. imho those individuals are the primary source of the toxicity. they are attempting to squelch or silence people WHO ARE CLEARLY PISSED OFF.

and if were running a company and i saw numerous complaints from very angry customers i would perk up and respond ASAP.

raging is an entirely valid form of very important feedback. you want to reduce the toxicity insta mute anyone trying to silence others.

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dmc9014#4875 schrieb:

companies should be glad they get any feedback at all. in many industries you never hear from your customers. while it is very nice to have that feedback well thought out constructive it is exception rather than the rule.

many on this forum call the people who are venting whiners and babies. imho those individuals are the primary source of the toxicity. they are attempting to squelch or silence people WHO ARE CLEARLY PISSED OFF.

and if were running a company and i saw numerous complaints from very angry customers i would perk up and respond ASAP.

raging is an entirely valid form of very important feedback. you want to reduce the toxicity insta mute anyone trying to silence others.

+1. Cambridge defines feedback as "information or statements of opinion about something, such as a new product, that can tell you if it is successful or liked" but there are alot of people taking it upon themselves to try to shut down negative feedback.

I would suggest two possible ways to improve the forum. One is to pin a thread outlining guidelines for what is or isn't considered feedback. The other is to crack down on people who invade feedback threads just to be antagonizing and patronizing contrarians.

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dmc9014#4875 schrieb:

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But venting in the feedback section? Idk... I vent in guild chat.
"Venting" is most of the time emotional and "feedback" based on that is rarely useable.

companies should be glad they get any feedback at all. in many industries you never hear from your customers. while it is very nice to have that feedback well thought out constructive it is exception rather than the rule.

many on this forum call the people who are venting whiners and babies. imho those individuals are the primary source of the toxicity. they are attempting to squelch or silence people WHO ARE CLEARLY PISSED OFF.

and if were making running a company and i saw numerous complaints from very angry customers i would perk up and respond ASAP.

No. I disagree. In the Games industry Feedback is plenty.
If you are pissed off, then dont vent and rage in the feedback Forum, its not the place for that. Cause that is not good feedback. The issue here is that Posts with raging titles get more attention and well made posts get sometimes no attention at all.
People with toxic rage bait Threads are as bad as people who dont argue and use ad hominem.

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raging is an entirely valid form of very important feedback. you want to reduce the toxicity insta mute anyone trying to silence others.

If the players cant control their emotions and make rage posts, then sorry those posts deserve to be deleted.
Yes rage is also feedback, but its not improtant. The important feedback should be constructive. Otherwise the loudest people get the most attention while being the actual minority. Or can you tell if the majority has an issue with exp penalty or not. You cant tell that despite many many posts in this feedback section are about that topic.

People who are fine with the exp penalty dont amke a post about it. People who are not fine with it are more likely to make a post about it.

I tend to rage a lot on things like Discord and sometimes posted a bit of rage here. But its not much.

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dmc9014#4875 schrieb:

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But venting in the feedback section? Idk... I vent in guild chat.
"Venting" is most of the time emotional and "feedback" based on that is rarely useable.

companies should be glad they get any feedback at all. in many industries you never hear from your customers. while it is very nice to have that feedback well thought out constructive it is exception rather than the rule.

many on this forum call the people who are venting whiners and babies. imho those individuals are the primary source of the toxicity. they are attempting to squelch or silence people WHO ARE CLEARLY PISSED OFF.

and if were running a company and i saw numerous complaints from very angry customers i would perk up and respond ASAP.

raging is an entirely valid form of very important feedback. you want to reduce the toxicity insta mute anyone trying to silence others.

Doesn't make any sense to me.

If someone rages and presents that as "feedback" - a normal reaction is that ppl then vent over the venting.

Then "insta mute anyone trying to silence others" is "silencing someone who is raging too".

You see the problem? THEY are allowed to vent here, but the opposition should be muted because the opposition is not allowed to silence them!? Sounds hypocritical.

No one here wants to silent feedback. The only thing we want to see removed is toxicity, so that good ideas and suggestions get discussed more and in a more constructive way. Because yeah, PoE2 could be in a better state, but we don't make it better by being toxic. We make it better by providing detailed information about our experience with the game and by providing suggestions that would make this experience better. Then it's GGGs job to use that constructive feedback. But there is nothing to be used if people just flame and being toxic.

no i dont see that as an equivalency. the person upset about the game is on topic. he is providing feedback about his experience playing the game.

the others are getting upset about someone complaining. that isnt about the game. its reduces signal to noise ratios and is the primary source of toxicity. because its an attack on an individual simply because they have an opinion that doesnt match their own.

to say no one here wants to silence feedback. that is a bold faced lie.

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dmc9014#4875 schrieb:

no i dont see that as an equivalency. the person upset about the game is on topic. he is providing feedback about his experience playing the game.

the others are getting upset about someone complaining. that isnt about the game. its reduces signal to noise ratios and is the primary source of toxicity. because its an attack on an individual simply because they have an opinion that doesnt match their own.

to say no one here wants to silence feedback. that is a bold faced lie.

But the person calling the other guy a whiner also does feedback. He tells the devs i disagree with that guy. The issue is both is still shit feedback. And should simply be removed. Its toxic.

If you are toxic dont expect others to be friendly to you. If you expect someone to react friendly to your rage post. You are a lost cause.

Nobody wants to silence feedback. To me it sounds like you want to put yourself into a victim position because you experienced that. You made a rage post and someone called you a whiner or a baby. But if you make a rage post then you are not a victim.

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_rt_#4636 schrieb:

Are some feedback posts toxic? Yes.

Is that feedback less valid for that? Depends on the case.
Very few feedbacks come from single-occurrence things and should be discarded.

Most of the "toxic" feedbacks come from players that got fed up after dozens of failures stemming from poor balancing and poor design choices on GGG's part.
The fact the posts are emotional doesn't take anything from that fact. Actually adds to it: players are getting emotional over GGG's decisions, over the game itself.
If they can't understand how bad this is for long term health and loyalty of their playerbase, their own loss.

People will say they're a vocal minority, and maybe they are, but I believe they're not (my own evaluation of things).

PoE 2 is a new game with new classes, new skills and new ascendancies and it has been "released" for only 2 months. It has already lost 75% of the peak playerbase on Steam (Sunday vs. Sunday comparison) and it loses 20% of its current playerbase per week.
You must also consider the game was 2.5x bigger than PoE 1's biggest league, so there are A LOT of new players (arguably 300k+)
And it's not the kind of game you'd expect the average new player to finish in 2 months.

It's looking to perform similar to PoE 1 (which loses 90% in 2 months), except PoE 1 is an old game where most people have tackled all classes, all ascendancies, etc.

So, personally, I am seeing the "toxic" feedback as a testament of how GGG's stubbornness in their design choices has already cost them. Specially when you realize there are recurring themes in these feedbacks:

- 1-death maps should have been changed more than a month ago
- Clarity on why/how you died should have been fixed more than a month ago
- Slow UI should have been fixed more than a month ago
- Atlas generation should have been fixed a month ago
- Citadel generation should have been balanced a month ago
- Endgame loop should have been revamped a month ago (specially the lost towers and tablets system)

And this is not an issue of "lack of content because it's EA", since the core of PoE 1 is already there (endgame mapping). It's just that the current content is bad, boring, poorly balanced, has outdated design choices and is frustrating to engage with.

The point is simple. Toxic behaviour should not be supported. Toxic feedback should be tolerated.
If you make a rage post you can easily change that post and make it not toxic. The amount of insults to the developer in some posts is insane.

But can we get back to the actual issue. Of basically no moderation at all despite some insults getting removed by support.
You cna right now create 2 sticky posts with Feedback for Death Penalty and Feedback for Performance. And then you cna merge every new thread about this into the sticky thread. '
And you get rid of a lot of threads this way.


I for example have no issue with one portal or citadel generation.
I dont like the infinite Atlas and made a suggestion on how to change it nobody even reacted to it. Not enough Drama in the thread.
And i doint really have an issue with Towers. They are annoying but you can deal with it. I would prefer if a tower always has a boss at the end. So using Tier 15 on it is actually worth it. They are good for Delired Maps tho.