10% xp penalty is far too frustrating

+1

We loose the map anyway, why MORE punishment on top of that. its disgusting and its sometimes stopping me from doing content cuz Im mid-level and I dont want to loose exp...

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WolfeAndedare#6437 schrieb:

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Soop#0082 schrieb:

I will likely stop playing a character once I start getting the XP penalty.
Its blatantly unfun and removes any incentive to take risks. Combined with on death effects and random one shots its just not worth the effort. I really enjoy the game, so I'll like just roll another but its not great design IMO.

Well I am sorry you feel that way because it is the way of this game since its inception in POE 1 and not likely to go away. Not to mention a huge percentage of most of the popular games in the world. Maybe they will make a league just for people that want no consequences for bad decisions/gameplay and you might like that better. I hope they do just so people cringe at having some kind of consequence for dying have somewhere to play. I will never cringe at The challenge to get better and to reach higher so as not to lose what I earn.

I know its been around since the beginning and its why I drop characters all the time. Its just not fun, its not additional challenge its punishment on top of having to redo the content. I don't mind having to stop and work out what I am doing wrong, but if I am actively going backwards that's just wasting my time and I've better things to do with my limited time.

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WolfeAndedare#6437 schrieb:

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Toforto#2372 schrieb:

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WolfeAndedare#6437 schrieb:

It is an Infinite Atlas It goes on forever so what if you lose a map. Move on and find another. I feel nothing but the urge to be better. To Make my build and character better so I do not lose maps. It is an incentive to Not die. To not let the maps overpower me. This mechanic does exactly what it is supposed to do and it isn't outdated It is still in all the most popular games.

One that comes to mind is Dark Souls where you lose all your souls when you die and if you aren't careful it could be hours of gathering souls that you lose. And sometimes you actually cannot get them back because you aren't strong enough to get past what killed you and get them back.

In Subnautica you lose your inventory of materiel's you spent hours gathering.

In Demon Souls if you die you lose currency, exp, and are forced into Soul form which has half damage and health till you defeat a demonic boss to reclaim your original form.

In NieR: Automata you have to not only re earn exp they have to make it back to their body and reclaim all their equipment off the back of their dead corpse.

In Sifu every time you die you grow older and lose more of your Max Health as you age from each death.

In Until Dawn if you die during a character arc you lose the character entirely from the story line.

I could go on and on But there are far more punishing games that I didn't even mention 10% exp on your current level is a small price to pay to incentivize you to get stronger and make your build better and to simply get better at the game.

With all that said if you read my full post before I did mention that surprise one shots needs to be addressed to make sure that people that are taking all this into consideration when playing do not get unfairly killed and punished by bad game mechanics.

Doesn't matter if the atlas is infinite, still feels bad to lose your ENTIRE map full of loot and possibly other league mechanics you've juiced it up with, along with whatever mod it may have had from a precursor tablet. Along with the currency you put into rolling the map. Especially if you're just trying to progress the quest to do X amount of Tier X maps it can just slow down your progression and drain any motivation you had of playing.


When I lose 10% exp I already feel like not playing at all for the day, its demoralizing and stupid. So not everyone goes "oh gee let me just improve my character and try not to die to that on-death effect/archnem random mod combination next time". These kinds of death penalty mechanics are so damn archaic,outdated and pointless. All they do is waste your time and make you want to uninstall the game. Just delete it, it should stay back in games from the 2000s and 1998, it has no place in a modern game. I'm trying to have fun not to be punished for every small mistake that's not even my own fault 90% of the time.

But they are not Arcaic in any way shape or form. a huge percentage of most of the popular games in the world have punishing mechanics and most of these were made within the last 5 years. Not the 90's and early 2000's.

These modern games with these mechanics also have ways for you to grind to oblivion to not die anymore. Elden Ring souls? Go to a high level area and backstab enemies and get dozens of levels to trivialize content. Some people like grinding for bigger number without cock and ball torture game design.

Convenient that this is left out by people who say these mechanics are still present, there are counterbalances so players can exceed the expected power by just putting in some time grinding no risk content. Intellectually dishonest is what your statement is.

I'd honestly rather a skill debuff than XP loss.

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WolfeAndedare#6437 schrieb:

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Toforto#2372 schrieb:

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WolfeAndedare#6437 schrieb:

It is an Infinite Atlas It goes on forever so what if you lose a map. Move on and find another. I feel nothing but the urge to be better. To Make my build and character better so I do not lose maps. It is an incentive to Not die. To not let the maps overpower me. This mechanic does exactly what it is supposed to do and it isn't outdated It is still in all the most popular games.

One that comes to mind is Dark Souls where you lose all your souls when you die and if you aren't careful it could be hours of gathering souls that you lose. And sometimes you actually cannot get them back because you aren't strong enough to get past what killed you and get them back.

In Subnautica you lose your inventory of materiel's you spent hours gathering.

In Demon Souls if you die you lose currency, exp, and are forced into Soul form which has half damage and health till you defeat a demonic boss to reclaim your original form.

In NieR: Automata you have to not only re earn exp they have to make it back to their body and reclaim all their equipment off the back of their dead corpse.

In Sifu every time you die you grow older and lose more of your Max Health as you age from each death.

In Until Dawn if you die during a character arc you lose the character entirely from the story line.

I could go on and on But there are far more punishing games that I didn't even mention 10% exp on your current level is a small price to pay to incentivize you to get stronger and make your build better and to simply get better at the game.

With all that said if you read my full post before I did mention that surprise one shots needs to be addressed to make sure that people that are taking all this into consideration when playing do not get unfairly killed and punished by bad game mechanics.

Doesn't matter if the atlas is infinite, still feels bad to lose your ENTIRE map full of loot and possibly other league mechanics you've juiced it up with, along with whatever mod it may have had from a precursor tablet. Along with the currency you put into rolling the map. Especially if you're just trying to progress the quest to do X amount of Tier X maps it can just slow down your progression and drain any motivation you had of playing.


When I lose 10% exp I already feel like not playing at all for the day, its demoralizing and stupid. So not everyone goes "oh gee let me just improve my character and try not to die to that on-death effect/archnem random mod combination next time". These kinds of death penalty mechanics are so damn archaic,outdated and pointless. All they do is waste your time and make you want to uninstall the game. Just delete it, it should stay back in games from the 2000s and 1998, it has no place in a modern game. I'm trying to have fun not to be punished for every small mistake that's not even my own fault 90% of the time.

But they are not Arcaic in any way shape or form. a huge percentage of most of the popular games in the world have punishing mechanics and most of these were made within the last 5 years. Not the 90's and early 2000's.

Name 3 of those games with exp loss.

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WolfeAndedare#6437 schrieb:

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Polantaris#1920 schrieb:

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WolfeAndedare#6437 schrieb:

I Disagree with OP on this one I believe the EXP penalty is a great way to keep you on your toes and Makes you more careful on how you traverse maps and get from point A to point B. Maybe a little less of a penalty would be prudent as you scale into higher levels but I do not agree that is "disrespects" the player nor do I agree that it should be removed. There should always be a penalty sufficient to Discourage rushing through maps or the upper campaign with no thought or caution.

What do you call the fact that death = map loss now, then? You die and lose 10% EXP, your Waystone, AND any special mechanics you didn't engage in. How much more incentive do you need to "keep you on your toes and make you more careful on how you traverse maps to get from point A to point B"? 2/3 of those will still be around, and we're not saying get rid of those (at least not in this topic).

How doesn't it disrespect your time to invalidate hours of grinding, especially when you're 90+?

It's an archaic mechanic that should have been removed a decade ago and never made it out of PoE1 beta, let alone gotten in to PoE2 beta. It's pretty telling when 90% of the responses outside of yours are, "git gud," as their defense. They don't even try to counter arguments. There's no defense for this that cannot be countered easily.

It is an Infinite Atlas It goes on forever so what if you lose a map. Move on and find another. I feel nothing but the urge to be better. To Make my build and character better so I do not lose maps. It is an incentive to Not die. To not let the maps overpower me. This mechanic does exactly what it is supposed to do and it isn't outdated It is still in all the most popular games.

One that comes to mind is Dark Souls where you lose all your souls when you die and if you aren't careful it could be hours of gathering souls that you lose. And sometimes you actually cannot get them back because you aren't strong enough to get past what killed you and get them back.

In Subnautica you lose your inventory of materiel's you spent hours gathering.

In Demon Souls if you die you lose currency, exp, and are forced into Soul form which has half damage and health till you defeat a demonic boss to reclaim your original form.

In NieR: Automata you have to not only re earn exp they have to make it back to their body and reclaim all their equipment off the back of their dead corpse.

In Sifu every time you die you grow older and lose more of your Max Health as you age from each death.

In Until Dawn if you die during a character arc you lose the character entirely from the story line.

I could go on and on But there are far more punishing games that I didn't even mention 10% exp on your current level is a small price to pay to incentivize you to get stronger and make your build better and to simply get better at the game.

With all that said if you read my full post before I did mention that surprise one shots needs to be addressed to make sure that people that are taking all this into consideration when playing do not get unfairly killed and punished by bad game mechanics.

You could go on if you played those games, but I'm sure you never did.

A frankly ignorant response to a well worded point being made.

XP loss and gatekeeping the endgame by limiting access to waystones both need to be gone. It's going to drive away a lot of players.

Don't know what more I can say that hasn't been said already.
But more people should let it be known for ggg to actually change or remove the penalty.

I've had a blast playing this game. Liked the challenge, liked the content, the gameplay etc...
It was fun up until maps... While the maps is a cool system (and I personally can only compare it to rifts in D3) the penalty is just disheartening.
I can be easily doing T6-7 with bosses etc, not a problem. only to be one-shot by stupid exploding chicken's spikes in the beginning of a normal T3 map and loosing all the XP I earned in a previous map.
Not only that, but you also lose the waystone.

To be fair, I could deal with loosing the waystone.. I have no problem having to farm lower tiers for more stones. It's still an ARPG, farming content is still the main premise one would assume. however I'm at a point where gaining XP from a T1-5 is so low that it would only make sense to farm them for waystones/gear... However a stupid mistake can still set you back 10% of your total XP for that level.


I don't like losing...
Dwarf fortress says: Losing is fun.
but that doesn't work in an ARPG imo... I don't mind dying, I don't mind losing items that I farmed to open a map. I don't mind losing a boss fight. But I don't like losing progress especially XP... that's not fun...

If you want to punish us for dying besides consuming the waystone then atleast only remove the XP from that specific map making only the last couple of minutes feel wasted instead of the last half our in some cases.

Whenever anyone tries to discuss this topic, the answer is always:
- Build more defensive
- Game shouldn't be easy
- Not everyone is supposed to get to 100
- Pay attention
- ....

And yes I agree... some points are valid... but an XP loss of this scale is antiquated and makes no sense with this difficulty.
I'm becoming an old man with less and less free time. The time I have to spend on video games is time that I want to enjoy and not feel frustrated about..
but that just like the rest of this post this is just my opinion.
And after seeing a forum post about this issue with already 9 pages shows that there are many people who feel the same way.

+1

They already wipe the loot on the ground on death,they already re-spawn all the enemies on death, they already close all the portals on death... just get rid of the XP penalty already, enough is enough.

It just makes the endgame a boring slog, making you play it safe at every turn until you reach level 100. Then you can risk your life however you want, yay, what sense does that make?