[3.20] Ice Dancing Queen - Icestorm/Cyclone/CI - Viable For Everything

As you see now, this setup is more than the eyes can see. I'm really enjoing this setup, this league i started with it and its was a very nice start to me.

Probably full cold Icestorm and Arcane Surge linked to vortex may have a better damage output, but i'm not sure, because since we use Frostbite + Ele weakness + Cold Exposure + The wise oak + Blanketed snow + cold pen from jewels, the monsters resist was alerdy decreased to a point where Awakened Cold Pen dont do much. I felt it and get worse with low end gear!

I've played both setups. I play with The whispering ice since 3.11 and every league i try new things to improve it.

I really hope that players try it and bring new ideas/tweeks, to keep improving our Whispering Ice gameplay!

And a little buff from GGG's side would be nice... Since this build need much effort to feel good and do all content. A little love would be nice!

"

whiterockxx schrieb:

As you see now, this setup is more than the eyes can see. I'm really enjoing this setup, this league i started with it and its was a very nice start to me.

Probably full cold Icestorm and Arcane Surge linked to vortex may have a better damage output, but i'm not sure, because since we use Frostbite + Ele weakness + Cold Exposure + The wise oak + Blanketed snow + cold pen from jewels, the monsters resist was alerdy decreased to a point where Awakened Cold Pen dont do much. I felt it and get worse with low end gear!

I've played both setups. I play with The whispering ice since 3.11 and every league i try new things to improve it.

I really hope that players try it and bring new ideas/tweeks, to keep improving our Whispering Ice gameplay!

And a little buff from GGG's side would be nice... Since this build need much effort to feel good and do all content. A little love would be nice!

Keep in mind that bosses start with 50% resistances and have 66% less cure effect. Your setup comes out with them having -1% cold resistance (and 0% fire resistance) after all the curses and penetration. So the 40% penetration from ACP would still be 40% more damage. Without CtF that is. Low level gear would probably have less Cold Penetration, making ACP even stronger increase.

Edit: All the that (and the calculations before) were with flasks not active, but should work pretty much the same.

As you can check at PoE wiki, more the resistences aproach to zero, less effective the penetration become.

https://pathofexile.fandom.com/wiki/Resistance_penetration



I learned it back in the past probably on 3.12 when i replaced Inspiration for Awakened Cold Pen, and discovered that was a bad move! 35% more damage from Inspiration delivery much more damage then 45% pen.(on that patch, the skill numbers was higer) if the monster resistences are zero or negative.

In fact, the itens dont matter, since the gear dont do nothing about monster resists, only the level/quality if Frostbite + Ele weakness.

Then if the monster resist is zero, Awakened Cold Pen do almost no damage increase. But anything that do % more damage or flat damage will be much more valuable.

"

whiterockxx schrieb:

Then if the monster resist is zero, Awakened Cold Pen do almost no damage increase. But anything that do % more damage or flat damage will be much more valuable.

Lets say you hit for 10k
CP gives 40% penetration.

Scenario 1: enemy has 50% resistance. (before CP)
Your damage goes from 5k to 9k. 4k extra damage, 80% increase.

Scenario 2: enemy has 0% resistance. (before CP)
Your damage goes from 10k to 14k. 4k extra damage, 40% increase.

Scenario 3: enemy has -60% resistance. (before CP)
Your damage goes from 16k to 20k. 4k extra damage, 25% increase.

It it the same flat amount of increase, just smaller % increase as the number you are comparing it to increases.

Main point is, that the penetration does not stop when enemy has 0% resistances left, it goes to negatives. I think cap that way is -200%, but you are not gonna hit it.

I think the image you linked is little misleading. The damage increase is still pretty good even at negative resistances, but because it starts so huge increase when enemy has high resistance the image makes it look like it is low.

As I understood the penetration is not aditive, but is multiplicative.

So if you have 40% pen and the target has 50% resist, you'll deal 30% less damage. It's 40% of 50 that is 20%. So only 20 from 50% resist will be bypassed.

Otherwise there was no need to exist penetration, since you can have the -X% resist attribute it would be redundant 2 different properties doing the same thing.

"

whiterockxx schrieb:

As I understood the penetration is not aditive, but is multiplicative.

So if you have 40% pen and the target has 50% resist, you'll deal 30% less damage. It's 40% of 50 that is 20%. So only 20 from 50% resist will be bypassed.

Otherwise there was no need to exist penetration, since you can have the -X% resist attribute it would be redundant 2 different properties doing the same thing.

It is additive. You can see it in the picture you linked earlier. At 0% you get 10% increase and keep getting increase even at negative resistances. The picture actually has little error, the damage increase should be 10 times higher than what is in the picture.

The difference between -X% resist and resist pen happens if you have enemy with over 75% resist. Lets say 100%

Monsters are affected by the 75% max res.
If you have 40% res pen, monster end up with min(75%,100%)-40% = 35% resistance.
If you have -40% resist, monster ends up with min(100%-40%,75%) = 60% resistance.

If you had 20/20 split, monster would end up with 55% resistance.

Cjin you are correct, and I was wrong from a long time xD.

Doing the tests on PoB and if it's right, the Elemental Penetration negate the same % of Resistence.

Follow the PoB tests with a hit with 10k cold damage:

Raw damage (no penetration and monster resist = 0%) 10.000 final damage
0% Penetration and monster resist = 50%, 5.000 damage
50% Penetration and monster resist = 50%, 10.000 damage
50% Penetration and monster resist = -50%, 20.000 damage

Conclusion: Cold Penetration is aways a good.

Cjin based on our last talk, I was testing the gen setup on PoB.

Cold to fire + Trinity for the boss staff, seems to have the lowest DPS of all 4 setups that I tested. With Arcane Surge lvl 14 linked to vortex.

I tested: Cold to Fire + Trinity, Awknd Cold Pen + Arcane Surge, Awknd Cold Pen + Cruelty and for last Awknd Cold Pen + Hypothermia.

https://i.imgur.com/RFLeDuF.png

*ACP + Cruelty has no image because I tested it later today!

CtF + Trinity, has 3,1% less damage than ACP + AS;
ACP + AS, has 0,9% less damage than ACP + Cruelty
ACP + Cruelty, has 3,1% less damage than ACP + Hypothermia


Seems like for the Boss Staff, Awakened Cold Penetration + Hypotermia, with lvl 14 Divergent Arcane surge linked to Vortex has the better damage output, since we cannot use Awakened Controlled Destroction.

In conclusion, the DPS difference are so low that any of setups are valid.

I'll try Hypotermia and Cruelty to feel how it goes, but in the next league probably will stick with Cold to Fire, because it's more versatile and for mapping seems to do more damage, even losing Enfeeble. Let's see xD

"

whiterockxx schrieb:

CtF + Trinity, has 3,1% less damage than ACP + AS;
ACP + AS, has 0,9% less damage than ACP + Cruelty
ACP + Cruelty, has 3,1% less damage than ACP + Hypothermia


Seems like for the Boss Staff, Awakened Cold Penetration + Hypotermia, with lvl 14 Divergent Arcane surge linked to Vortex has the better damage output, since we cannot use Awakened Controlled Destroction.

In conclusion, the DPS difference are so low that any of setups are valid.

I'll try Hypotermia and Cruelty to feel how it goes, but in the next league probably will stick with Cold to Fire, because it's more versatile and for mapping seems to do more damage, even losing Enfeeble. Let's see xD

What did the numbers show for Trinity when you had CtF? When I was looking, PoB counted Trinity like you get only 2 resonances. So for the PoB calculations Trinity counted only the 10% increased damage from quality, not the 30% more/17% penetration.

It is possible to use Controlled Destruction since they changed the penalty from no crit to (only) 80% less chance to crit. But you want some extra crit chance from somewhere if you want to use it.

Follow the config tab

Lowest Resonance set 50, since Trinity with full effect is up all the time.

https://i.imgur.com/f2se2Xf.png

follow the PoB

https://pastebin.com/3vi5Ld2R

on this PoB you can swap the support gems and see the result

https://i.imgur.com/Xw4aEzA.png