[3.10] Spidermancer | Arakaali's Fang Necromancer | Everything dead in 3ex | Level 100 reached

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skyscan schrieb:

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NecropK schrieb:

Unfortunately this build to me is not what it once was. The damage just feels meh after like tier 11-12 maps. Spectres die a ton so frenzy charges are not always there. So I tried a hybrid running 6 link skeles in chest to offset some more dmg but even that felt mediocre. I personally think the huge buff to bosses health pools really hurt this build. I wound up going back to golems and it literally feels 10x better which sucks cause these little spiders brought me so much fun in the past.

I agree for the most part. It feels fine up to a point. I was doing t16s in standard yesterday, but I'm sure delirium encounters would feel uncomfortable. After this league I'm probably going to be retiring this build. The whole goal was to clear the entire game on a budget. After going through 20 waves in Simulacrum, I don't think spiders would be able to do it easily.

Funny that you mention golems, I'm playing that this league and will be making a guide :) I've been fairly active on the stone golem ele guide, but I'm using a different version of that build that I felt a new guide would be helpful.

I've played golem builds in the past before and felt really unsatisfied with the results, especially the flame golem variant. The version I've created is stupidly tanky and very high dps, stay tuned :)

Ya I am playing a stone golem build right now. I switched to spiders for a bit hoping they would be ok, but didnt feel good for the most part. I am actually about to try the spiders again with full chaos conversion with 4 white triad grips and saqawals nest with aspect of avian to get 25% chance at dealing double damage. This combined with baron and 6 linked zombies. I think it was angry rollplayers build. But this is pretty much last resort for spiders I think. Because if this doesnt work I just dont know what would. And really only going to try this because I got a bottle faith drop from cortex last night and can fund it.

Do you have (or anyone really) a good speakers wreath, mind over matter version POB? because of losing eb and all the auras except hatred I seem to lose to much damage but I really like the speakers wreath interactions.

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NecropK schrieb:

Ya I am playing a stone golem build right now. I switched to spiders for a bit hoping they would be ok, but didnt feel good for the most part. I am actually about to try the spiders again with full chaos conversion with 4 white triad grips and saqawals nest with aspect of avian to get 25% chance at dealing double damage. This combined with baron and 6 linked zombies. I think it was angry rollplayers build. But this is pretty much last resort for spiders I think. Because if this doesnt work I just dont know what would. And really only going to try this because I got a bottle faith drop from cortex last night and can fund it.

I'm posting it here as well (since it looks like you don't see any possibilities with arakaali), but I believe going full cluster jewels is the way to go right now. Like REALLY going full cluster jewels (aka zero minion nodes in the regular tree). The spider nerf was really significant in 3.10 (-38% damage), but you can do much higher damage than before with cluster jewels (aka rotten claws, cry wolf and renewal, lot of copies). I'm hitting 13M dps after removing a lot of damage from my initial draft (no spectre, no carrion golem, no feeding frenzy, no other minion at all btw. I was over 16M dps at first, but the defenses and QOL sucked hard) and with very few requirements (basically, you being close enough for pride, war banner and some hits for maim). The "in fight summon" is also very easy since you have no other minions. Just pop desecrate, the jar and cyclone and it's done.

The build also feature:
-Elemental ailment removal on writing jar (and some passive charge regen even without ryslatha)
-High uptime 40% less damage fortify and adrenaline (if you remove generosity on banner, lowering the damage to 12,4M). If you get high roll perfidy, it's actually close to 50%.
-A very good life regeneration (around 1K5-2K) and the possibility to play with bone offering on top of that.
-No switch required between clearing and bossing...
-Because the clearing is done with abyssal cry (dealing 65% mob life on explosion, with 270% increased aoe), triggered by al dhih (which is not a dead weapon, as it gives a fair amount of damage, attack speed and life regen), which is incredible in delirium.
-However, a shield switch for bossing is very easy to do and won't hurt the build at all (well, maybe the regen a bit)
-I don't think it's very expensive, as you don't even need 8 passives large jewels, the 9 passives are working almost the same (you lose 5% increased damage per large jewel, 15% total).
-A version without war banner and perfidy is also possible (for instance for a 25% increased offering effect to try to reach the block cap), but you will lose even more damage. May be worth it in some case.
-As cons, it has a lot of buttons to push all the time (warcries, especially), so some people may dislike that. I tried to automate as much as possible.

https://pastebin.com/cTNJUCLM (Generosity disabled)

For the (quite cheap) price, the build has almost twice the dps of every arakaali build posted on this forum currently (and tbh, I found the build from
angry rollplayer quite mediocre since the chaos conversion is really bad compared to physical/cold). And it's without frenzy charge or other highly theorical buff (given the life expectancy of specters in delirium) on spiders x)

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Keyen schrieb:

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NecropK schrieb:

Ya I am playing a stone golem build right now. I switched to spiders for a bit hoping they would be ok, but didnt feel good for the most part. I am actually about to try the spiders again with full chaos conversion with 4 white triad grips and saqawals nest with aspect of avian to get 25% chance at dealing double damage. This combined with baron and 6 linked zombies. I think it was angry rollplayers build. But this is pretty much last resort for spiders I think. Because if this doesnt work I just dont know what would. And really only going to try this because I got a bottle faith drop from cortex last night and can fund it.

I'm posting it here as well (since it looks like you don't see any possibilities with arakaali), but I believe going full cluster jewels is the way to go right now. Like REALLY going full cluster jewels (aka zero minion nodes in the regular tree). The spider nerf was really significant in 3.10 (-38% damage), but you can do much higher damage than before with cluster jewels (aka rotten claws, cry wolf and renewal, lot of copies). I'm hitting 13M dps after removing a lot of damage (no spectre, no carrion golem, no feeding frenzy, no other minion at all btw) and with very few requirements (basically, you being close enough for pride, war banner and some hits for maim). The "in fight summon" is also very easy since you have no other minions. Just pop desecrate, the jar and cyclone and it's done.

The build also feature:
-Elemental ailment removal on writing jar (and some passive charge regen even without ryslatha)
-High uptime 40% less damage fortify and adrenaline (if you remove generosity on banner, lowering the damage to 12,4M). If you get high roll perfidy, it's actually close to 50%.
-A very good life regeneration (around 1K5-2K) and the possibility to play with bone offering
-No switch required between clearing and bossing...
-Because the clearing is done with abyssal cry (dealing 65% mob life on explosion, with 270% increased aoe), triggered by al dhih (which is not a dead weapon, as it gives a fair amount of damage, attack speed and life regen).
-However, a shield switch for bossing is very easy to do and won't hurt the build at all (well, maybe the regen a bit)
-I don't think it's very expensive, as you don't even need 8 passives large jewels, the 9 passives are working almost the same (you lose 5% increased damage per large jewel, 15% total).
-A version without war banner and perfidy is also possible (for instance for a 25% increased offering effect to try to reach the block cap), but you will lose even more damage. May be worth it in some case.
-As cons, it has a lot of buttons to push all the time (warcries, especially), so some people may dislike that. I tried to automate as much as possible.

https://pastebin.com/cTNJUCLM (Generosity disabled)

For the (quite cheap) price, the build has almost twice the dps of every arakaali build posted on this forum currently.

The trick is to ignore all minion nodes in the tree, and only get life from it. Damage come from cluster jewels, and it's HUGE.

Ima def look at that when I get home from work. Have you tried or compared it to the chaos version with white triads? Or do you think that version with zombies and baron would even still be viable?

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NecropK schrieb:

Ima def look at that when I get home from work. Have you tried or compared it to the chaos version with white triads? Or do you think that version with zombies and baron would even still be viable?

I did read the guide from angry rollplayer, and found it lacking. His explanations were quite bad on several points, especially about the chaos conversion being "the best" (He claims false things as if they were obvious...). He also didn't play arakaali in 3.10 and think it's similar to 3.9 (I don't think you can understand how impactful 40% less damage really is just by reading about it, if he ever did since it was an hidden nerf). And his spiders + his zombies are doing a combined damage of 6M according to his very expensive pob (in the monotarget setup), so it's really average. And mid fight summons is fucked up since he has additional minions. And finally, I think you can buy my whole build for the price of a 4W triad grip.


BTW, I wrote something about cry wolf and its applications in general and why it's very good here.

The version here is cry wolf + rattling bellow, so abyssal cry has a huge aoe.

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Keyen schrieb:

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NecropK schrieb:

Ima def look at that when I get home from work. Have you tried or compared it to the chaos version with white triads? Or do you think that version with zombies and baron would even still be viable?

I did read the guide from angry rollplayer, and found it lacking. His explanations were quite bad on several points, especially about the chaos conversion being "the best" (He claims false things as if they were obvious...). He also didn't play arakaali in 3.10 and think it's similar to 3.9 (I don't think you can understand how impactful 40% less damage really is just by reading about it, if he ever did since it was an hidden nerf). And his spiders + his zombies are doing a combined damage of 6M according to his very expensive pob (in the monotarget setup), so it's really average. And mid fight summons is fucked up since he has additional minions. And finally, I think you can buy my whole build for the price of a 4W triad grip.


BTW, I wrote something about cry wolf and its applications in general and why it's very good here.

The version here is cry wolf + rattling bellow, so abyssal cry has a huge aoe.

Ehh white triads really arent to bad right now. Can get them for a little bit more then 1ex.

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NecropK schrieb:

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Keyen schrieb:

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NecropK schrieb:

Ima def look at that when I get home from work. Have you tried or compared it to the chaos version with white triads? Or do you think that version with zombies and baron would even still be viable?

I did read the guide from angry rollplayer, and found it lacking. His explanations were quite bad on several points, especially about the chaos conversion being "the best" (He claims false things as if they were obvious...). He also didn't play arakaali in 3.10 and think it's similar to 3.9 (I don't think you can understand how impactful 40% less damage really is just by reading about it, if he ever did since it was an hidden nerf). And his spiders + his zombies are doing a combined damage of 6M according to his very expensive pob (in the monotarget setup), so it's really average. And mid fight summons is fucked up since he has additional minions. And finally, I think you can buy my whole build for the price of a 4W triad grip.


BTW, I wrote something about cry wolf and its applications in general and why it's very good here.

The version here is cry wolf + rattling bellow, so abyssal cry has a huge aoe.

Ehh white triads really arent to bad right now. Can get them for a little bit more then 1ex.

My bad, you are right on that. I never checked the price and I trusted the price he announced in his guide (6ex). Still, it's still half the damage for twice the efforts and the costs.

Ya i dunno, I guess when I read his guide/setup I took his word thinking that chaos conversion may be best for this build in its current state. Maybe the builds just dead I dunno, as much as I hate to say that because I really wanted to play it. Maybe I will just stay with golems they way everything is now sounding.

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NecropK schrieb:

Ya i dunno, I guess when I read his guide/setup I took his word thinking that chaos conversion may be best for this build in its current state. Maybe the builds just dead I dunno, as much as I hate to say that because I really wanted to play it. Maybe I will just stay with golems they way everything is now sounding.

Chaos conversion is bad for several reasons:
-It's a huge pain to reduce chaos res (He doesn't even try in his build). While he is right about elemental res being higher than chaos res, he conveniently forget about means to reduce elemental res are just everywhere. On a minion build, it's incredibly easy to get 90%+ elemental res reduction. Meanwhile, for a chaos build, once despair (-10% chaos res) is used... you have basically nothing else easily available.
-The reflect is pointless if we are talking about arakaali
-Wither is shit compared to impale + increased physical taken or compared to hatred + cold pen.
-Bypassing ES is cute, but completely anecdotical (and end games bosses have chaos damage which doesn't bypass ES).

The build is far from dead, it just need evolution, and none of the guides currently done here exploit properly cluster jewels. I mean, look at the pob, look at the dps it does, look at the conditions required to deal this dps, and try to find flaws. I won't say there is none, but everything is here.

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Keyen schrieb:

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NecropK schrieb:

Ya i dunno, I guess when I read his guide/setup I took his word thinking that chaos conversion may be best for this build in its current state. Maybe the builds just dead I dunno, as much as I hate to say that because I really wanted to play it. Maybe I will just stay with golems they way everything is now sounding.

Chaos conversion is bad for several reasons:
-It's a huge pain to reduce chaos res (He doesn't even try in his build). While he is right about elemental res being higher than chaos res, he conveniently forget about means to reduce elemental res are just everywhere. On a minion build, it's incredibly easy to get 90%+ elemental res reduction. Meanwhile, for a chaos build, once despair (-10% chaos res) is used... you have basically nothing else easily available.
-The reflect is pointless if we are talking about arakaali
-Wither is shit compared to impale + increased physical taken or compared to hatred + cold pen.
-Bypassing ES is cute, but completely anecdotical (and end games bosses have chaos damage which doesn't bypass ES).

The build is far from dead, it just need evolution, and none of the guides currently done here exploit properly cluster jewels. I mean, look at the pob, look at the dps it does, look at the conditions required to deal this dps, and try to find flaws. I won't say there is none, but everything is here.

I agree with most of this, but realistically how many cluster nodes can we get? And with however many, how much defense or life are we dropping to reach them. And then even after all that, is it going to even be better or able to compete with other summoner builds?