[3.9] Omni-golem Primordial Chain Elementalist

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Vivan schrieb:

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tomatopotato schrieb:

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Vivan schrieb:

For my version, I use 1 Clayshaper in main hand for an extra golem and use Victario's Charity shield in offhand with the Necromantic Aegis node on the skill tree to give basically constant max frenzy and power charges to the golems. In PoB this gives about 40% more dps per golem which I believe outweighs the benefit of a 2nd Clayshaper, all things considered.

Contrary to popular belief, Victario's Frenzies offer virtually no benefit to typical Magma Ball usage.

1) The Minion Frenzy checkbox in POB (currently) doesn't account for cooldown and is therefore not accurate when determining DPS on skills bound by cooldown.

2) The bottleneck for Magma Ball (when used with Spell Echo, as is typical of most Flame Golem builds) is cooldown up until about your 10th Primoridal Harmony. Therefore, there is little to no Magma Ball benefit to having increased cast speed if you have less than double-digit Harmony. Even at 11x, I suspect NecroAegis+Vic's will not outclass a 2nd Clayshaper in the long run.

Tests/numbers here (sheet #2).

This is very interesting. I may need to test with going back to double clayshapers or go for survivability with a 400+ ES shield and take off NA as this build is starved for ES due to the helm. From your testing, have you seen if the same holds true for the Ice, Stone, and Lightning golems with regards to Victarios and PH jewels?

Yes, more or less. With Magma Ball, it's a hard cap. Once you hit it, the only thing you can do is upgrade your cooldown speed. But the other main skills from the golems you mentioned have mitigating factors, for lack of a better term.

Ice
You typically pair their "cyclone" with Multistrike, which means you're getting 3 uses out of each charge, rather than the 2 you get with Spell Echo for caster golems. The bigger issue with Ice Golems isn't cooldown though imo. It's distance management vs. endgame bosses. Ice golems won't cyclone if their target is in melee range. So they need to be led or convoked back a distance to force them to cyclone against Shaper for example. For trash mobs, it doesn't matter. Pretty much everything will get obliterated by the cyclone.

Stone
I haven't played Stone golems seriously in a while, so I may need to review, but it's the same thing. Frenzies will give you more slams for like the first few seconds, and after that they'll slam at cooldown rate if not given a chance to rest.

Lightning
The orb they put out is capped by cooldown, but the arcs coming out of it and also the golems' projectile bolts aren't. So increased attack/cast speed is never "wasted" for this golem type.

And while we're at it, yes, Chaos should also be tuned/balanced for cast speed vs. cooldown.

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tomatopotato schrieb:

Yes, more or less. With Magma Ball, it's a hard cap. Once you hit it, the only thing you can do is upgrade your cooldown speed. But the other main skills from the golems you mentioned have mitigating factors, for lack of a better term.

Ice
You typically pair their "cyclone" with Multistrike, which means you're getting 3 uses out of each charge, rather than the 2 you get with Spell Echo for caster golems. The bigger issue with Ice Golems isn't cooldown though imo. It's distance management vs. endgame bosses. Ice golems won't cyclone if their target is in melee range. So they need to be led or convoked back a distance to force them to cyclone against Shaper for example. For trash mobs, it doesn't matter. Pretty much everything will get obliterated by the cyclone.

Stone
I haven't played Stone golems seriously in a while, so I may need to review, but it's the same thing. Frenzies will give you more slams for like the first few seconds, and after that they'll slam at cooldown rate if not given a chance to rest.

Lightning
The orb they put out is capped by cooldown, but the arcs coming out of it and also the golems' projectile bolts aren't. So increased attack/cast speed is never "wasted" for this golem type.

And while we're at it, yes, Chaos should also be tuned/balanced for cast speed vs. cooldown.

Great information. Thanks!

I don't think running a cold spell to debuff for stone/ice golem over a lightning spell to shock is better since you are loosing dps on the flame golems.

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Puandro schrieb:

I don't think running a cold spell to debuff for stone/ice golem over a lightning spell to shock is better since you are loosing dps on the flame golems.

As your crit rate is awful for yourself (~10%), you shock about as much as you ignite or chill with it due to the rotating elemental conflux from the Ascendancy nodes. Also, you rarely do more than the guaranteed minimum with it in harder content, also from the Ascendancy tree. I find that changing the type of skill does not really change this much.

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Vivan schrieb:

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Puandro schrieb:

I don't think running a cold spell to debuff for stone/ice golem over a lightning spell to shock is better since you are loosing dps on the flame golems.

As your crit rate is awful for yourself (~10%), you shock about as much as you ignite or chill with it due to the rotating elemental conflux from the Ascendancy nodes. Also, you rarely do more than the guaranteed minimum with it in harder content, also from the Ascendancy tree. I find that changing the type of skill does not really change this much.

You have 10% base chance to crit from ascendancy.
Arc gives 10% base and another 10% from Quality so we are at 30%. Taking crit into account we have 42% chance to shock according to PoB.

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Puandro schrieb:

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Vivan schrieb:

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Puandro schrieb:

I don't think running a cold spell to debuff for stone/ice golem over a lightning spell to shock is better since you are loosing dps on the flame golems.

As your crit rate is awful for yourself (~10%), you shock about as much as you ignite or chill with it due to the rotating elemental conflux from the Ascendancy nodes. Also, you rarely do more than the guaranteed minimum with it in harder content, also from the Ascendancy tree. I find that changing the type of skill does not really change this much.

You have 10% base chance to crit from ascendancy.
Arc gives 10% base and another 10% from Quality so we are at 30%. Taking crit into account we have 42% chance to shock according to PoB.

I thought you were talking about ball lightning because that is usually what I usually use for curse on hit. I bought a 23% quality lvl 20 arc to test it. Both it and glacial cascade have 10.25% crit with 10 golems out. But the chance to shock with the arc is 31% base compared to 10% for everything with glacial cascade. So yes you will shock a lot more with arc which will give a bit more damage to the flame golems, but it also kinda invalidates the pseudo 5 link for our lightning golem as we lose something like 75 lightning resistance down on the enemy, and the lightning golem only does lightning elemental damage. Doesn't feel very synergistic. It is probably a total damage gain, maybe. Hard to tell. To be honest, I'm torn. Thanks for bringing this to my attention, tho.

thank you for the guide. now i'm level 85, and all work great for basic content (actually doing level 8 maps).

my problem is the low energy shield, and i die a lot.

Today i had luck making a 6 link vaal regalia with the right color gems.

the problem is that using fossil for crafting, the max i got was:

+88 max shield
and 45% max es

How u obtained +190% es??


i used 1 dense fossil in a 1 slot resonator

need to use 3 slot resonator and 3 dense fossil? they stack or overwrite?
2 dense and 1 perfect fossil?
or what?

can u explain what u ahve do? thx
Cant waste money trying :) i'm poor :)

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kobeworld schrieb:

thank you for the guide. now i'm level 85, and all work great for basic content (actually doing level 8 maps).

my problem is the low energy shield, and i die a lot.

Today i had luck making a 6 link vaal regalia with the right color gems.

the problem is that using fossil for crafting, the max i got was:

+88 max shield
and 45% max es

How u obtained +190% es??


i used 1 dense fossil in a 1 slot resonator

need to use 3 slot resonator and 3 dense fossil? they stack or overwrite?
2 dense and 1 perfect fossil?
or what?

can u explain what u ahve do? thx
Cant waste money trying :) i'm poor :)

OK so it is not inherently obvious, but you can actually get 4 separate mods that give energy shield.

For prefixes you can get + base ES, +% ES, and you can get +% ES with stun and block recovery. For suffixes if you fossil craft you can get a suffix that is +% ES. You can see this if you highlight the item and hold the Alt key in game. But, when you just look at the item, it combines all 3 of the % ES affixes. If you are fossil crafting one yourself. Dense fossils are the one you need the most. The cheapest option would probably be to spam single dense fossils until you hit about 700+ ES on the item, but you could also use fossils to block elemental rolls if you don't need the resist rolls as that would block a lot of possible rolls. I would recommend using Dense, Corroded, and Prismatic fossils together to block as much as possible except ES rolls. The dense fossil does not stack with itself. But before all of this, if you are going to use perfect fossils to try to roll 30%ish quality, do that first before you start using triple resonators to roll for actual ES.

Also, If you are dying a lot, there is no shame in getting a high ES shield for your offhand. A 400 ES shield can add up to about 1200-1600 total ES. But you will lose a large chunk of golem damage if that is not an issue for you. Just run 5 fire golems and 1/1/1/1 of the rest. I do this all the time myself for harder challenges.

after around 30 tries, the best i obtained was this:


+76 to maximum Energy Shield
164% increased Energy Shield
Minions have 26% increased maximum Life
15% increased Stun and Block Recovery

(total ES: 703....... with 30% quality vaal regalia)


with 2 slot resonator and 1 bound / 1 dense fossil

looking at poedb mod section, the cheap method is only 1 dense fossil, but the chance for obtaining high ES is the same..... so i tried with the combo with bound and got the maximum life on golems.
have preferred higher ES, but bad luck on rolls :(

the 3 fossil method: prismatic, corroded and dense is more expensive.

ps: i obtained the 30% vaal regalia, after 5 try with 1 slot resonator and 1 perfect fossil.