Melee bad 0.2-0.4 expirience

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ponebolezney#5412 schrieb:

Expecially when you forced to take skill speed/attack speed nodes because it IS a defencive for melee - slower your attack/skill speed - more time you stand still while casting melee attack while being attacked in melee. Truly an amazing expirience.

Hi, yes 100% agree with your thread and prior post.
In addition to your "findings" have look on my "findings" that hurt the game.
There is combination that really hurts the game, the flow in general and the combat feeling:
(1) the embedded /hard coded stand-up time for the bear
(2) +0.4 or 0.5 seconds additional rampage initial time skill
(3) the double click necessary to apply rampage
(4) the size of temporal chains applying in Tier-14 maps
(5) any form of freeze (map mods like chilled ground or monster gain extra cold)
(6) Spear+Shield Farradin monster can stop your rampage
(7) Basic attacks from insects are faster than all bear attacks. Light stun meter keeps building from all small insects.

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Joe_Black#7188 schrieb:

Hi, yes 100% agree with your thread and prior post.
In addition to your "findings" have look on my "findings" that hurt the game.
There is combination that really hurts the game, the flow in general and the combat feeling:
(1) the embedded /hard coded stand-up time for the bear
(2) +0.4 or 0.5 seconds additional rampage initial time skill
(3) the double click necessary to apply rampage
(4) the size of temporal chains applying in Tier-14 maps
(5) any form of freeze (map mods like chilled ground or monster gain extra cold)
(6) Spear+Shield Farradin monster can stop your rampage
(7) Basic attacks from insects are faster than all bear attacks. Light stun meter keeps building from all small insects.

I gave up on rampage clearing and use it almost exclusively on bosses with ancestral cry, after stunning them. I have almost 40% skill speed in talents and 40% skill speed support on rampage and it still gets interrupted like 50% of times when i try to cast it on abyss on breach swarms, not even saying that standing still for 1 second to start moving is a death sentence on most maps.

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ponebolezney#5412 schrieb:

I doubt your judgement on getting to 6k armour without a single armour cluster on lvl ~60, but whatever.

Told you

so true!

Needing to stand still for a second is death in melee range.
Not to think of super charged slam or other channel skills. Why are they even in the game?? Just for boss when he is stunned but then you have better options like the glory skils.

Melee needs too be fixed! Melee needs more defense in close range and somoe tradeoffs. The hectic attack stopping in dodge roll thing is ridiculous!

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ponebolezney#5412 schrieb:

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Mashgesture#2912 schrieb:

You have said a lot and I think the best thing to do is to just show us your build.

I think your armour is probably extremely low and then we need to take a look at your tree if you are going for things like Unbending, or stun threshold in general.

Currently i have 5720 armour - 64% armour at level 79 in bear form shaman. It's not about build, i can build 90% armor sacrificing all damage, and i know of builds which utilize other mechanics than armour to save you from physical damage. But if you argue that melee is on par with ranged builds or better because you can spend more points into armour/deflect/ES/block/threshholds/%slow effect while ranged dont have to do it as much/at all - i do not agree.

You definitely don't need to sacrifice all your damage to get good armor.

I also play a Bear Shaman (actually was a Bear Oracle, but switched since that was kinda bad), and at your level I had around 50k, I think.

All I did was get myself a Brass Dome on trade, which was pretty cheap, and took some relevant defense nodes. The chest alone gives around 4k armor, and prevents criticals, so it's an amazing and relatively cheap chest piece until you can get something better.

Now, I was using armor alone as a defense mechanism, and while that worked because Rampaging Bear is very strong and mobile, I would occasionally get killed without even seeing from where. This was my first melee, by the way. I played ranged ever since the first league.

That's when I realized armor is only effective at small hits, not really the big ones. It's good to protect you from a huge pack of fodder shooting at you, not so much from big hits.

So I changed some things around until I arrived at a very comfortable build I'm now using, with the following layers of defense:

- Armor as my first layer of Defense (27k, showing 89% at the tooltip in Hideout). It's also preventing 89% of elemental damage,

- Mana (with Mind Over Matter) as my second layer of defense (around 2800 when juiced on Mana Remanants)

- Then ES as my third layer of defense (sitting at 3175)

- 2619 Evasion as a bonus (not really counting on it, it just happened - shows 22% at tooltip, pretty much nothing, but I have plans to improve a bit towards 33% with no sacrifices)

An then there's some misc stuff:

- Pounce (slotted with Consecrate, Mark of Siphoning and Prolonged Duration) to help sustain on bosses or big enemies. Also works to get me out of mob packs fast if I get overwhelmed

- Totems with Font of Mana slotted

- Molten Crash, which I can use both offensively as well as defensively, a great attack that lets me reposition without missing a beat. It also lets me Rampage freely and, if I get interrupted, I can switch to Molten Crash almost instantly, letting me clear some mobs so I can restart rampaging.

- If I don't wanna approach a strong abyssal enemy, I make some fissures with Molten Crash, drop 2 totems, and lure the enemy there to at least drop its HP a bit before I engage it.

All of that is sustained with mana leech on rings and mana on kill on jewels.

I'm not using super optimal equipment, there's a lot of room to improve. Most expensive equipment I bought was my weapon, Fury of the King, at 2 div (I was using a different one I found before that, and it was also doing fine. Sold for 80 Ex 2 days ago). I especially need a better Sceptre so I can ditch Sacred Flow for Reactive Growth, which would really help improve survival even further, but if I do it now, I have to drop a herald.

I also plan to add in the future either Convalescence or Wind Dancer to further make it more survivable.

It's not as easy as ranged, granted, but I feel like I have enough tools to survive. On big shots I can use both mana and HP flasks at the same time to boost my survival a little bit, which is often enough to let me do a Molten Crash on some mobs to trigger the Mana Leech and get me up and running.

Did I kill my DPS doing all that? I don't think so.

My Molten Crash sits at 33500 DPS before being further buffed by Bhatair's Vengeance (on a 1:20 timer after being triggered) and Ancestral Cry (usually on a 1:50 timer), and that adds up with the Walking Calamity meteors (on a 45 seconds timer, but easy to maintain all the time). It's also ignoring fire resistance entirely (since my maps usually roll with extra monster resistance, I just left it there permanently), and Fury of the King converts 80% of your damage into fire.

All of that to tell you there is a path to success on melee. It's harder, yes, but perfectly doable and honestly more rewarding than "walking backwards and pew pew" at strong enemies.

If Bear has a problem, to me it's the inability to see the enemy mods while using Rampage. You definitely do not wanna charge ahead blindly into some Abyssal Rare group, it's better to inspect them first, but you can't do that while Rampaging, which sucks.

-69
Aktually melee is op, armour is way more op than EV, ES. Why? Cuz gigachad titan 60K armour said so. They need to nerf melee more and buff range.

Took me way less investment to get this than get 10k ES on a hybrid.

Not just in items but also tree investment.


And you are way more safe with this than 10k ES

Last season with titan I was doing pack sized t17 overruns. This season I am on melee druid and relative to warrior it feels worse. Currently have 3k hp 10k armor (similar defensive stats with 0.3 titan) The issue is effectiveness stacked abyssal rare packs. You can not get in the melee/slam range because of their physical dot and their stupid invulnerability fog. There is no defensive mitigation against it; no substantial hp nodes and no physical damage reduction nodes on the passive tree. On titan you can circumvent the problem by using appropriate melee skill such as sunder or shield wall making the combat effectively ranged. Druid has no "ranged" melee ability so to speak as warrior.

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Told you

Not the person you were replying to but i feel the need to point this out.

Wrong character. Do it on druid. With the expected mixed ES+Armour hybrid gear.

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Mashgesture#2912 schrieb:

Took me way less investment to get this than get 10k ES on a hybrid.

Not just in items but also tree investment.


And you are way more safe with this than 10k ES

100k armour translates to ~8k max phys hit with ~4k life, a lich in mediocre ES gear can triple that.

Learn what you're talking about.