How POE2 Can Escape Economic Instability and Seasonal Resets
" Alright, you want numbers? Let’s talk numbers. Two days ago, I logged in, went to the trade system, and watched in real-time as I had to burn through 443 Exalts just to get ONE Divine. I didn’t estimate it. I didn’t speculate it. I lived it. And you’re telling me inflation isn’t that bad? My guy, I just paid a small mortgage for a single Divine Orb. If that’s ‘normal,’ then I guess next week I’ll need to start offering organs for trades. 1 Divine = 1 left kidney, final offer. So tell me again, what’s 'normal' about an economy where core currencies spiral so hard that even mid-league players can’t afford endgame crafting? I’m genuinely curious. Oh, and just to keep things fresh—I just logged in (March 11, 2025, 8:30 PM Taipei Standard Time), and the current exchange rate is 1 Divine = 470 Exalts. At this rate, next week we’ll be paying "1 Divine = Your soul + firstborn child." Zuletzt bearbeitet von hary82521#3899 um 11.03.2025, 10:08:54
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" Everything I described applies to the original poe1. The situation in poe2 is not an indicator. Early access is not a standard, it's a Void league, you know? GGG has not reacted to the consequences of dupes/exploits/bugs. There is no point in judging the economy in such a situation. In a few weeks there will be a new patch with a wipe of all progress, and we will see a more realistic state of things. And if there are no abuses, we can draw conclusions about the state of the economy in a month or two. |
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" Ah, so now POE2's economy 'doesn't count' because it's early access? Convenient. But let’s be real—economics isn’t something you 'wait and see', it’s something you manage. If you ignore warning signs now, by the time a 'real' economy forms, it’s already too late to fix. Inflation, currency sinks, market stability—these aren't issues you patch in 'a month or two'; they need proper foundations before things spiral out of control. You say 'we can judge the economy later,' but by then, what’s left to fix? A POE2 Standard League where 1 Divine costs 1000 Chaos? Let’s not pretend GGG hasn't made the same mistake before. |
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" "Bro, do you know how many times we’ve done the campaign? We’ve run it so much that the maps are practically engraved into our brains. I don’t even need a minimap anymore—I just navigate by floor textures and random props." "See a torch? Turn left. See a broken bridge? Blink across or detour right. Large plaza? That means the boss arena is two screens away. I don’t read quest text—I read the ground." "And after being forced to rerun this for the hundredth time, you’re asking me why I want to keep my league character? Bruh. 😑" |
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" You think I want to keep my league character? Bro, we’ve rerun the campaign so many times that we’re literally navigating by floor textures." "See cobblestone? That means a split—go right for the wasteland. See a torch? Oh crap, we passed it—double back! We need to find that damn witch in the forest. Follow the pebblestone path! I need my passive point!" "And when the map spawns weirdly? We even roast the terrain generation while speedrunning. ‘Oh, good, this version has the stone pavement—means I don’t have to check the minimap.’" "I swear, if I have to kill Kitava for the 500th time, I might just let him win out of respect. |
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" I told you poe2 early access is not a standard league. What mistakes, what are you even talking about. GGG kept the standard league alive for almost 10 years, wake up. Relax, there are people working at GGG who, fortunately, understand something about this world. This is the best game company that knows how to make a game, a really good game. And just a piece of advice, just relax and trust them, seriously. |
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" Ah, I see, so we've reached the 'blind faith' stage of the discussion. Look, I respect GGG as much as anyone—POE1 lasted over a decade for a reason. But 'trust the devs' is not an argument, it's a hope and a prayer. GGG also designed Archnemesis. They also introduced the loot goblin meta. They also let Affliction League's economy spiral into chaos. Should we just 'trust' that none of those things ever happened? Being critical of a game you love doesn’t mean you hate it. It means you care enough to want it to improve. So no, I won’t just 'relax and trust them.' I'll watch, analyze, and give feedback—because that's how good games actually stay great. |
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" "I totally get what you're saying—Standard League in POE1 was always the fallback for players who didn’t want to keep racing every season. And yeah, POE2 is still in early access, so we can’t expect things to be perfect yet." "But that’s exactly why now is the best time to talk about this. POE1’s economy slowly collapsed over years, not overnight. If we don’t push for better long-term solutions now, POE2 might end up making the same mistakes—just with a fancier trade system." "So yeah, I also hope GGG figures this out before release. But hope alone doesn’t fix an economy, and I’d rather discuss solutions now than wait until it’s too late." |
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" Okay. You keep making up problems and trying to come up with solutions. Good luck with that! |
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Rassomaxa is being unreasonable. I think he saw chinese characters and got scared.
I do not agree with OP's solution for game economy - it is non-dialectical. But i can understand the point. POE 1 did something similar, the problem is that it does not scale - and POE 2 lacks said thing. When you deal with economics, at least according to the MMET, you care more about LIQUIDITY than inflation itself. The most important thing is to keep currency flowing. Money is a social contract, it has no inherent value and it can be socially and politically controlled. Hary's approach is lacking in politics, what makes economy interesting is exactly how other people evaluate the value of certain things. Let's think in terms of dynamics. Having a source generates movement in your liquid system. But, considering the system is perfectly isolated, past a certain point you arrive at a certain pressure threshold where you can not inject any more material, so you need a sink. And if you project your system to have more resistance in certain directions than other, than you could better control emergent concentration behaviour. In economy, these are taxes and other expenditures - anyone past an elementary understanding of economy knows taxes are one of the tools through which inflation can be controlled. The problem with POE 1 and 2's inflation is that past a certain point, there is basically no way to enforce liquidity. POE1 did that through operation costs, a "tax" you pay to juice your maps - that cost comes in terms of Chaos orbs, with a stack of chisels being determined by the system to be worth 8 chaos IIRC. This means every 20 quant map you run, effectively, costs 1.6 chaos. Then you get another sink, now emerging politically through the negotiation of Scarabs. A common denominator is Time saved, so it can be considered into our system as well. And this system actually works well! The problem with middle and late league is that economic activity actually goes down because people stop playing, thus it leads to inflation and further concentration of resources - which creates a vicious cycle that pushes inflation further. Now we come to a complicated situation - technically, a good way to control this for Standard would be to limit storage space, so people are forced to liquidate their currency every league merge (assuming people can only have a limited number of temporary stashes of course). The problem is: People can buy multiple stash tabs to deal with this. What hary presents is actually something GGG can not currently deal with and I think it is worthy of discussion - a solution would lead to a better economy too. The idea of assynchronic trading is contributive to economic liquidity. I can also understand why Chris Wilson would be against this - different political and economic points of view, he focused more on bringing friction to control economy than adding liquidity. What Hary suggested could be enforced through the current system of currency exchange by an automated bot on the server side, yes. The same way we know a chisel is worth 2.5 chaos, there could be a system to "floodgate" the economy and it wouldn't even be perceptible. But again, the value of currency fluctuates wildly from league to league depending on the systems being implemented, which mechanics got nerfed or buffed (during settlers, i could easily make divs selling sanctum maps. Now they are worthless due to nerfs). A change to metacraft could raise or plummet the value of divines due to it being one of the main sinks for this currency. THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF MY ARGUMENT The devs can't keep track of EVERY emerging synergy, no one can, it is impossible. Before POE we had Yu-gi-oh and MTG, games riddled with unexpected synergies - with MTG having cards that plague historic formats to this day. This is why i consider it valuable to give power to players to evaluate said synergies, which can be the power of certain items, of certain crafting methods or the efficiency of certain farming setups. Plus, we do not know how much influence price fixing and bots have over the 1economy - they surely do have an effect, but it is very hard from the big picture to distinguish which transactions are human-made and which are due to bots. But, fundamentally, hary is right: POE 2 needs ways to control its economy. POE 1 has. POE 2, due to its crafting mechanics and lack of resources to spend for farming strategies, barely liquidates its currency. It is exactly because we know current standard will be voided that we need to bring light to this. Who knows, maybe an econophysicist could be prowling the forums and could bring a solution that catches GGG's eyes. Regardless, we must voice that this is a legitimate concern we, as a community, have. The earlier we do this, the better - because then GGG can use said feedback to direct its plans for endgames and mechanics having those concerns in mind and thinking about how well currency would be liquidated. Zuletzt bearbeitet von Ablan#1306 um 21.09.2025, 22:46:54
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