One-attempt Maps are a massive middle finger, PLEASE change it
" what? you can, and many people do, turn off dropping items and exp loss in minecraft, they literally change the "parameters" to fit what they like. |
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" Ho that's right, you can change the parameters of your own game ; but not a classic multiplayer server you don't own which doesn't feature that. |
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" Dude, for real? That's such a bad take. I've played hardcore leagues before. I know what it feels like. What the hell does it matter if you dislike the comparison? I no longer want to deal with the same stress levels. Softcore has a certain expectation that death sucks but isn't severely punitive. It's punitive in PoE2. My personal experience feels almost no different from the last time I went hardcore (regardless of the game) with PoE2's current one-attempt system because it feels just as shitty to lose what I lose. Just because the level of impact is different doesn't change the fact that I and many others feel extremely bad with PoE2's current state of death penalty for softcore. Hell, it almost feels worse, because picking hardcore you expect that level of penalty, and the penalty in softcore does not align with death penalty expectations, especially compared to PoE1 as this game is its direct sequel. |
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" Once again...you've never beat merc lab in HC. You haven't experienced HUNDREDS of hours lost in HC. You're making comparisons you know nothing about. Weird too, because all these expectations you're making seem to be the problem, not the game. |
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" Are you going to debate my points? Would you like me to quote them again or do you just want to keep tickling the taint of TOS violations with your blatant troll baiting and antagonizations? I'm not going to bother reading anything you type until you engage honestly. |
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" What does it matter if I've personally beat HC merciless lab or not? And as for expectations, why is that my problem when the direct prequel of this game features a far less punitive death penalty for softcore? I think you're distracting from the topic. Attacking me doesn't in any way diminish or defeat the argument in favor of restoring 6-portals. I've already suggested if enough people really like it this way there's nothing stopping GGG from introducing a Veteran league that makes deaths more punitive without character loss and keeping Standard with just exp loss and one less portal. |
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" People engage with you honestly everyday but as soon as they disagree with your opinion you run away, threaten people of reports or to ignore them. So you know, I've spoken to walls more receptive to the truths. You keep comparing Softcore to Hardcore, when the punisments are day and night. You keep comparing PoE1 to PoE2, while they are different games and don't need to have the same systems. You want a game with six portals, it's there. There is -no reasons- for PoE2 to change its one portal design because some other games does . The only reasons you keep pushing this subject is that you keep dying, and you hate the feeling of it. Yes, it sucks, for everyone. That's the point of death and the associated punishment : to feel bad. There is existing solutions to your problems : -Stop dying by playing better with better build and gear. -Accept that you do mistakes and to die every now and then and that you aren't that good. -Stop playing a game which is too hard and/or too hurting for you. -Advocate for more telegraphed dangerous attacks, mob balance, visual clarify, and game's stability and coherence. -Ask for a Baby league where death doesn't exist. But asking the game to be made plain easier/less punitive just becaude you don't like it, is, IMO, not the way to go, and detrimental to the game's health overall. |
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" Pluhs Won Mash the clean
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After reading the responses to this post... I have lost some hope in this game actually improving. There is probably sub 25k people that actually like the level of punishment in this game, but this tiny proportion of players make up over half of the forum users. This kinda leaves me hoping that GGG doesn't read their own forums lol. My estimates may be a little off for now, but if mage defenses ever get nerf'd to the level every other class has had to deal with since EA launch... my estimates will be far more accurate.
Zuletzt bearbeitet von CelestialDesign#6120 um 04.02.2025, 23:31:39
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" If you want to have an honest conversation, start with the points I made in my OP. Otherwise, you're just stalking me to troll, and I'll thank you for bumping the thread for more exposure. Do that, and I'll engage with you. That means making a genuine attempt to counterpoint my presented reasons to change one-attempt. Respond respectfully, and I'll engage with you. That means dropping the "baby league" bullshit and other unnecessary attacks on my character or that of others that share my position to remove one-attempts. Here, I'll even make it easy for you, and spoiler them right here for ease of quote. And for the hell of it, I'll even include my anticipatory responses of the most common pushbacks I've seen against changing one-attempt for you to re-read, just to be sure you can bolster your reply to its fullest potential. There are four main points. I'd like to emphasize the negative feedback loop as the strongest point to be made against the punitive one-attempt system, as such things are Game Design 101 to endeavor to avoid. Respectfully provide a counter to each of them:
Spoiler
- Softcore league has certain expectations.
Death should be meaningful (lose something, like exp) but you shouldn't be losing too much. Softcore should NOT be losing loot, map mechs, AND waystone on top of the already significant experience loss. I'm not aware of a single game THIS punitive that isn't by design a rogue-like/lite with baked in hardcore mechanics. PoE's classic inspiration of D2 dropped your body and gold. Many like games since have had little to any death penalties beyond time spent. Last Epoch only costs you the bonus reward for a Monolith node, or time to build up another attempt for the Monolith or Shade boss. The extremely punitive death penalty in PoE2 goes against expectations of a softcore league. Nobody signed up for this. - The stress of survival feels too close to Hardcore As mentioned, Softcore has certain expectations. Dying is never desirable, even if all you ultimately lose is time to return and reattempt. Some people like the thrill of that threat, but I gave up on hardcore ages ago because I no longer want to risk the loss in time investment and got tired of too many one-shots in the likes of PoE1 or bullshit moments in any number of other like ARPGs. The stress of one bad move or one bullshit moment is too damn much. I want to play for fun, not for threat, and softcore is a threat. It makes it a chore and more frustrating than it should be thanks to the threat of losing my entire map (plus all loot, mechanics, and the waystone on top of the already significant exp loss for rate of gain at 90+). - Dying and losing your map is intensely demotivating and demoralizing. This is made even worse by the game's current abhorrent state of balance, especially for Armor/Life as I only have a warrior in maps right now. When you can run dozens of maps at the more or less same level of juicing and suddenly get one shot by a rare, or a normal attack from a boss that ignores dodge (or hell, a bug, like the Forge boss's sword not blocking the inferno's damage once no matter where I stood), or any number of bullshit moments beyond your control in the hectic nature of this game's game play, it feels all that much worse losing so much. - Losing the entire map creates significant risk of a Negative Feedback Loop Map sustain droughts happen. I've had times where I was juicing 300+% around T9 or 10 and would get next to no waystones, and they'd never be above 4 or 5. Knowing what my build can more or less handle, it also means certain map mods brick the waystone before I can even use it (I miss Scouring and Alteration orbs SO friggen much because of this, such a weird choice to remove them entirely rather than making them rare), further negatively impacting map sustain. If I then die once or twice--my fault or otherwise--I could risk going back many tiers worth of maps, which any further drought will only then make even worse. It feels horrible losing map sustain for the tier you're able to reliably clear. This reason alone should be all GGG should need to bring back 6-attempt maps, or at least return to the drawing board and find a sensible compromise (Hell, I'd be fine with 3 attempts as a compromise, so long as I can then town portal as much as I want (just prevent use of TP during boss encounters if that could pose a problem)).
Spoiler
- Players will be incentivized to glass cannon/skip defenses with multiple attempts
Glass cannon builds capable of nuking the screen are already the meta, both in PoE1 and in PoE2. In fact, it could just as easily be argued that glass cannon/screen nuke build players are incentivized to play such builds more as a result of one-attempt. Knowing there's only one chance, the "path of least resistance" mindset leads to just killing everything on screen before it can threaten you. Without knowing precise numbers, it's only anecdotal that there would be any more or any fewer players "skipping" defenses. Besides, as anyone would quickly discover, you still need a viable minimum, so this isn't a strong point to favor punitive one-attempt. - Players will push harder content than they should and die constantly to clear maps by using most or all 6 portals. Leveling up is still desirable. Those last 30ish passive points (as most players will be tickling the taint of level 70 if not leveled passed it by end of campaign) can still significantly benefit your build. The exp penalty is already enough of a disincentive to not smash your head against a brick wall hoping it crumbles. I fail to see how an almost certainly minority of players is going to negatively impact anyone else, nor the trade league economy that a properly played build juicing T15+ isn't already inflating. - Death needs to be meaningful and is a teachable moment. Exp loss is already meaningful, and there are plenty of other ways for GGG to make death meaningful. They could downgrade the map's level, costing you the chance of drops at the ilvl you need; You could lose mods on your map, thus weakening it; You could have a re-open cost through some currency charge, new or existing. And beyond that, there's nothing teachable about the game auto-targeting the wrong enemy, or being pushed into a corner that traversal/dodge can't push out of, or suddenly encountering a super juiced rare that is doing easily 10 times or more the damage of any other similar rare (even of the same mob type), or just some unlucky moment that you simply could not react to like a crit or bug or something lost in the visual clutter. Nothing is teachable when you're one shot or fighting the game more than the monsters. And with this game's mob damage balance just being "Line go up", there's nothing teachable about mobs that can zoom across the screen with damage you can't reliably recover from or avoid that offer no mechanical strategy in a game that puts so much more emphasis on player skill, tactics, and reaction. Nothing is teachable about being hit by the equivalent of a Golden Gun in content you're clearing that doesn't even raise your resting heart rate. - The death is your fault and you should learn how to play/git gud/you're just bad All the more reason for multiple portals. How am I expected to learn from deaths legitimately my fault if I can't re-attempt the encounter that killed me? What is teachable about dying to something you didn't even register? What is teachable about misjudging a boss attack and not being able to go back to try again? And so what if someone is not a good player, do they not deserve a more casual experience that allows them to get better? No one deserves for their time to feel like it was wasted, especially a video game we play for fun. No matter a player's skill or fault for a death, we signed up for Softcore for a reason. |
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