Fixing Melee (Warrior/Mace)

I wouldn't say charges are *completely* useless, as with relatively small investment you can get 7 attacks with +150 something increased and up to %100 more damage, which synergizes well with slow-hitting maces. Problem is that it includes attacks that don't hit anything, like if you use shield charge as a movement skill.

Forgot to mention that armour explosion is also anti synergetic with 1h maces, as its damage depends on your weapon and you only get to break armour once. So with resonating shield if you're surrounded and didn't prime for stun with the first explosion (which is likely if you use 1h mace) you're f***d.

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Sydneydonza#3078 schrieb:

Thing I find interesting in all these posts (I've made several) is you get some warriors/mace bro's saying "nah its fine" - I mean I have a 90+ warrior, 90+ merc, 90+ monk, 80+ bloodmage etc.

With my warrior I can clear T16 juiced breach maps, kill bosses etc sure, but compared to (which is the important thing here "balance") my other classes it's an absolute torture machine. It's slow, it doesn't clear as fast or clear, it's damage out put single target is ok when you're alone but in the group by the time you drop a hammer the boss is dead etc.

You can get decent life regen yep, not nearly as good as ES.
You can get good life as a warrior but 1000's less than if you're a merc or bloodmage (wtf bro?)
You can get decent armor, what is decent? You know to take a single white mob but that's about it.
You can spec and max your block out which helps but then you lose a ton of damage.
You can wear heavy armor but then you get penalities for movement which is ridiculous because you're a fucking strong warrior (or strength stacking class)

The whole point of this thread and others, really is warrior can be played but it's slow and weak and squishy (unless you take off armor, put on a see thru dress and stack energy shield) - it needs a ton of work, they mentioned at the interview the morning of the patch conference it needs to be brough up A LOTTTTTT - I don't reckon it'll happen. The new weapons wont help much as the builds will still follow the same progression path unless they add a ton of new content to the passive tree. Damage nodes, life nodes, attack speed nodes etc, all the same lol just a different skill to click your mouse on.

They could make some easy changes to make it more enjoyable for those who play it; buff the damage of stampede, shield charge, rolling slam, give the armour nodes a double or triple multiple of what they are now - this probably still wont be enough, add some higher life nodes on the warrior side or in the ascendancy the 15% adds like 500 to titan, thats less than the life cost of a level 18 skill with blood magic. Block needs a rework too, needs more love, less passives.

TLDR; Warrior still sucks, needs massive buff. All other classes absolutely wreck it. Fact.

this post was hard to read, because its SO true in every way.
Im in the same boat, my war can clear ok 16, all endgame content, simulacrum +4... the only thing left is arbiter +4, what is a matter of time.

The problem here is the comparison: all other classes outshine warrior pretty bad. It needs improvement in a lot o areas, from armor (how it works, not only big numbers),life regen, life steal, TOTAL HP, attack speed and block.
Skills have to be improved either (damage or skill speed).

Please GGG, look for your warriors!!

The best clear for a warrior right now is 2 x 2H maces with massive splash damage + level on weapons and then "mace attack" how fricking depressing that this one class is so under thought about that it's default attack is also its best clear (with a ton of investment) and all other classes get to use their primary attack - spark, flurry, ice strike etc.

Saw a bro in chat last night, high level titan talking about his 100% temp chains, corpswade boots and how he's spec'd fully into the top right of the tree because int is stronger for warriors right now. Seen a ton of ghostwrithe warriors and have played one too, ridiculous you're tankier in a night gown than armor.

SADDDDDD - whoever has been on the dev team for warriors since 2011 needs to be fkn fired, honestly lol.

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onetruelai#7327 schrieb:

I wouldn't say charges are *completely* useless, as with relatively small investment you can get 7 attacks with +150 something increased and up to %100 more damage, which synergizes well with slow-hitting maces. Problem is that it includes attacks that don't hit anything, like if you use shield charge as a movement skill.

Forgot to mention that armour explosion is also anti synergetic with 1h maces, as its damage depends on your weapon and you only get to break armour once. So with resonating shield if you're surrounded and didn't prime for stun with the first explosion (which is likely if you use 1h mace) you're f***d.

Invested for sure, you can get a lot of Empowered, but it doesn't strike me as terribly useful given not building for more empowereds via endurance charges means you have more consistent non-empowered damage. Strikes me as kinda only being maybe good on bosses as given my current experience nothing else lives beyond a single empowered HotG drop (even a good 95% of the time just empowering Rolling Slam finishes off a chunky rare) and it's not like you can keep popping HotG for each empowered.

1H maces meanwhile strike me as being weak AF period, like there's nothing about them that makes them useful except maybe dual wielding warpicks and building crit might work. The attack speed isn't all that useful when that does nothing for wind up attacks (all the more reason for a Wind Up tag, especially useful for mace but even the handful of others across other weapon/skill trees would be nice to have)

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Sydneydonza#3078 schrieb:

The best clear for a warrior right now is 2 x 2H maces with massive splash damage + level on weapons and then "mace attack" how fricking depressing that this one class is so under thought about that it's default attack is also its best clear (with a ton of investment) and all other classes get to use their primary attack - spark, flurry, ice strike etc.

Saw a bro in chat last night, high level titan talking about his 100% temp chains, corpswade boots and how he's spec'd fully into the top right of the tree because int is stronger for warriors right now. Seen a ton of ghostwrithe warriors and have played one too, ridiculous you're tankier in a night gown than armor.

SADDDDDD - whoever has been on the dev team for warriors since 2011 needs to be fkn fired, honestly lol.

I am tickling the taint of dual wielding 2handers. If I could just get another like 10 strength on a ring or something, I'd manage it. Fucking ridiculous how much I need to roll max mod tier on practically everything just for minimum viability while some Spark sorc can just clear screens in a second and not even care about more than like 3 total mods on any given piece of gear for the same survivability or better. Not that I suggest they need some massive nerf, just stupid how much more effort mace/warrior requires to even enter the same ballpark. The fact we are tankier wearing one of two energy shield chest uniques is beyond telling of just how bad our situation is.

0.2.0 needs to be a massive buff or I'm going casual on my playtime with this if not stop completely. No other class seems to quite be clicking the way warrior did.

Funny you mention spark, I took my widowhail and followed a build guide for it basing on projectile bonus from quiver, hit maps in 9 hours (first caster so little slow learning)then few hours later was 87 I think? Cleared simu and literally didn't move the whole time, think my dmg meter said 126k for spark using a level 1 bow, lol. Did some T16/17s button mashing, clearing, got bored and rolled another char.

Honestly I think the dual weild of 2 handers should be a warrior ascendancy and not an option for shit like gemling to outshine a titan or warbringer its rubbish. I had close to 1100 str on my gemling, over 9000HP with a 4% jewel and bonus from his ascendancy. Its lame as hell.

Warrior ascendencies are pretty underdone on both of them as it is apart from hulking form and armour break.

Imagine being a titan and not being strong enough to carry a shield without it slowing you down but then you're a caster with a shield that has the same block and magnifies its gems by 700% or has better defensive stats with resistances etc so you don't get any penalties, its COOKKKKKKKKKED

Ps sucks about your str man :(

It certainly doesn't help that we still don't have every skill and support and persistent gem available to us yet, either. Still, it is demonstrable beyond demonstrable at this point that melee generally and warrior/mace especially is so undercooked in ability, potential, and toolset compared to all other EA classes that it may as well still be a flour dusted chunk of dough.

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CPTBRUMBL3Z#3146 schrieb:

It certainly doesn't help that we still don't have every skill and support and persistent gem available to us yet, either. Still, it is demonstrable beyond demonstrable at this point that melee generally and warrior/mace especially is so undercooked in ability, potential, and toolset compared to all other EA classes that it may as well still be a flour dusted chunk of dough.

I'd definitely eat the dough over playing another warrior through to the high 90s haha! Definitely keen to see if that dude in the video follows thru with the whole "we have to bring the warrior up, a lottttt" or if they just flake like usual. Theres been so many forum posts thought, surely they have to do something!

yup.. 20 years playing multiple RPGs, mainly playing warrior/tank and i never had such bad melee experience.
Love all range classes though.

I'm currently finishing the campaign on Cruel on my Warrior, but I just switched to Crossbows and Bows. Went completely into the right part of the Skill Tree. So yeah, I gonna break armor indefinitely but with crossbows instead of maces.

I haven't seen 2 possible suggestions here:
1. Increase attack speed on mace bases. I generally think that it would bethematically wrong to have many AS nodes in the red part of the Skill Tree, but increasing AS specifically for maces (items, not skills) might solve the clunky feeling partially.
2. I think, we might have some actually good implicits on Armor bases (items). The people were saying, that armor has nothing to do with elementals/chaos. This might solve it. Like, 30% fire resistance on body armor or something like that. Or having + max resistances on armor bases.

I completely agree with almost everything said here. 2 main points about mace skills seem very important to me for "good gameplay":
a) Let me use WASD movement while I'm using all the skills, not just slamming my shield with a mace.
b) I like the idea of Wind Up and Pay off. But I don't think we need those tags. Generally, just make some Skills to generate power charges and others to spend it. Because mechanically this is the same thing. One thing is a "starter" and another is a "finisher". The same "binary" system is on Endurance charges (generate/use). I don't think we need additional tags on skills, because we can simply use existing ones.


I also have an issue with the current armor in general. The thing is, all the other "defenses" multiply each other. So, having ES multiply your health BUT it is also affected by resistances, so not only do you have much more "health" than actual "health-stacking" characters, but you also can survive MUCH more elemental damage. Same for evasion. You can increase your health AND resistances AND evasion (with Acrobatics). Tailwind on my Deadeye also gives me "30% less damage taken" so I just don't die, except for Damage over Time effects (like bloody tornados in Ritual or Burning Ground).
The thing with armor is that it has a crazy scaling formula. Like, why can't you just block a certain percentage of physical damage without any dependency on enemy damage on hit? Overall most Armor must be reduced accordingly, but I see this as the only solution long-term. Let armor scale the same way evasion does but with a guarantee instead of a chance to negate all the damage.
Another global issue with armor is that it just doesn't protect you from anything BUT physical damage. So, there is no multiplying here either. Something like "+max resistance percentage for a piece of armor worn" (up to +5%: +2 for body part and +1 for head/hands/boots) or some other ways to boost multiplicatively all of those other sources of damage is a necessity if armor-based builds don't feel like a paper in the endgame.