Maces and Slams Feel Really Bad to Use

This complaint is probably as old as time, but I really can't help but complain about how bad maces and slams feel right now. Carn goes into more detail about this in the Zizaran's recent podcast, and he brings up a point that a lot of these design decisions for maces and slams are not only intentional but will be pushed forward with and not changed.

Like, can you guys not just force clunkiness on the class by adding forced attack times? Why do we need to deal with Mana when we're already dealing with accuracy? You guys apparently said that spells don't need to deal with accuracy because they're already dealing with Mana, so why can't attacks get a similar treatment? Can Stampede PLEASE knockback enemies on hit instead of forcing us to run like cowards? If you're gonna make armor so bad, can endurance charges reduce physical again? Can we also have fortify back? Can we build up stun much faster than Monks can build up freeze?

Because even if Axes and Swords magically make melee fantastic, if Maces are bad to use, then people will just not use them, and it's a shame because Maces can be so much better than they are right now.

To add insult to injury, there are passive points that do more damage but reduce attack speed. You factor into that the accuracy of your character and enemy evasion and it really is clunky. I have to put quite a bit of investment to get to that node that monsters can't evade your hit but then don't do crits. They have to rework some of those trade-offs in the passive trees.

"We love melee" - GGG

The worst part is that they nerf Armor Explosion by not making it chain with itself, but they allow stuff like Herald of Ice and Herald of Thunder doing crazy Chain reactions? Like, WTF?

I guess in one way, the combo between Ice and Thunder is technically not as egregious because it's players figuring out fun interactions with skills, but that's also kind of the thing that Warrior has an issue with? Warrior hardly seems to get any interactions that feel as rewarding save for probably stuff like Earthshatter and Earthen Cry, but then that pigeonholes you into stuff like using Hammer of the Gods, or using Totems for single target, because in my case, I like using Sunder for single target, and Upheaval is a huge source of damage for Sunder with how it shotguns. Like, WTF? DX

To focus on one skill: to make Rolling Slam good, it'd need to have some innate, strong damage reduction (even against unblockable moves). It's wild how, when I actually care about dying or clearing quickly, it's better to move away and use Molten Blast or something. Like, the move designed to be used against groups in melee with all my physical damage investments and extra slams is worse than throwing lava balls in a cone. I continue using it cuz I'm very non-committal with skills, and I'm forcing myself to believe the 'using many skills situationally' dream, but it's pants. Extend this thought toward any melee skill that's actually in melee range. Every skill should clear a "Is there any good reason to use this in Trial of Sekhemas on an enemy outside of Heavy Stun?" test as long as that's the first way to get Ascendancy.

And in my experience, Armour Break does very little for your damage, even against targets with tons of armour. Even with an instantly-Armour-Breaking Boneshatter, I don't feel the difference strongly. Same for Payoff moves. A gemmed-out Leap Slam with Armour Break Payoff is adding very little Stun to my moveset compared to, say, spamming Shield Charge contextlessly.

Also, it's easy to waste Endurance Charges. Wish there was more to do with them aside from Warcries and a single support gem.

So basically, every core Mace mechanic (as a new player that isn't following build guides, etc etc) feels disappointing to learn and explore.

Agree. I play fighting games, beat them up and the likes, i love close quarter fights in a game. But the dev need to think the melee system out of the rpg box.
My main gripe with mace skills is that they have either a slooooooow startup, a delayed damage, or both !

-Stampede has the character take a pose for a split second before moving (this is an eternity in the middle of a fight !), then you have no way to cancel out of it, no way to steer (is my character too stupid to turn around while running ?), and damage occurs after you finish your animation.

-Rolling slam ? It's long to start and hit with the first hit, and most of the time you want to cancel before the second hit because there is rarely an opening long enough to hit with it. And there are other skills with a far better reward when you have these openings.

-Hammer of the gods : how does this qualify as "attack" ? It looks and feels like a spell, and it has both long sumonning time (wich you mustn't cancel !), delayed impact and looooong cooldown ! At least, damage is worth the wait...

-Earthquake : 4 seconds to wait before damage occurs, and the damage in question is disapointing...

-Boneshatter : the only good melee skill i tried for clearing packs. It's fast and direct, it triggers explosions, it's fun... Alas, the "crushing impact" ascendency bricks it, because now you can't prime ennemies for heavy stun anymore, they will get instantly stunned, so no more explosions.

-leap slam : what did they do with it ?! The character now jumps needlessly high, and provided you took some "reduced attack speed" nodes it will float like it is on the Moon. Worst part ? I got frozen at the apex of my jump once, about 30feet above the ground... then got skewered by spearmen poking at ground level... I guess coherence is dead at that point.... I should also mention the awful assisted aim that makes me jump at the nearest ennemy, not where i put my cursor.. Or the fact that, even with the option to "always attack witout moving" ticked on, my character will walk a few steps before jumping if i aim a bit far...

-Sunder : packs a punch, but very slow, and any support will slow it more. I would mind a bit less if my character didn't need to do a small jump

These are the skills i tried, and finally, my favorite is... Mace Strike ! it's fast, reliable and consummes no mana....

The only reason for this i can think of is that axe and sword attacks will be the fast and nice feeling abilities and we will be weapon swapping to maces for big hits.

If they release marauder/duelist and axes/swords and maces are completely unused im sure they will do something about it

I honestly wish one of the developers or leads like Jonathan or Mark were streaming an SSF run of Warrior (without Totems BTW) just so that I can see them play and see what their experience with melee is like, because I'm genuinely under the impression that no one in the team plays melee at all in either PoE1 or PoE2. Because you can't say that you're fixing melee if you don't play it at all. Them saying that they're fixing melee makes me feel like they're lying to my face.

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cadpgamer1992#7720 schrieb:

I honestly wish one of the developers or leads like Jonathan or Mark were streaming an SSF run of Warrior just so that I can see them play and see what their experience with melee is like, because I'm genuinely under the impression that no one in the team plays melee at all in either PoE1 or PoE2. Because you can't say that you're fixing melee if you don't play it at all. Them saying that they're fixing melee makes me feel like they're lying to my face.

To be fair I thoroughly enjoy the mace playstyle in this game, but if you are playing trade league you are just playing bball in a wheelchair against michael jordan.

Do the Devs release or stream any of their builds or what not?
I bet you when they release (if they ever) see the stats of the early access class, warrior should be dead last in % total played.

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cadpgamer1992#7720 schrieb:

The worst part is that they nerf Armor Explosion by not making it chain with itself, but they allow stuff like Herald of Ice and Herald of Thunder doing crazy Chain reactions? Like, WTF?

THIS