[GAME BREAKING] Addressing Price Manipulation and Market Inflation in Path of Exile's Trade System
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heres another one for you :
Brood Batter Expert Smithing Hammer One Hand Mace Physical Damage: 53-88 Fire Damage: 75-124 Critical Hit Chance: 5.00% Attacks per Second: 1.45 Item Level: 81 Requires Level 77, 212 Str R376% increased Physical Damage R9Adds 45 to 74 Fire Damage R6Gain 22 Mana per Enemy Killed R420% increased Stun Duration ~price 100000000 divine Exact Price: 100000000×divineDivine Orb Escanor-cg#3528 listed 5 hours ago Questions ?? Brewskie
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How bout this one:??
Scalper's Jacket Body Armour Evasion Rating: 117 Energy Shield: 48 Item Level: 76 Requires Level 39, 45 Dex, 45 Int ~price 9999900 mirror 9999900×mirrorMirror of Kalandra jimbox4#1664 listed 12 days ago really ? Brewskie
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Trade Forum is BROKEN, GAME BREAKING BROKEN.
Refer to my original post for suggestions and possible fixes of which i have no control over. Brewskie
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" First of all, I'm not attacking you, so let me clear that right up. I have been playing MMOs with large private player trading markets and auction houses for over 20 years (e.g.: FF11, EVE Online, WoW, and more). This song-and-dance of alleged price-fixing, rampant inflation, and so on? It isn't news to me nor am I shocked that event RMT has made its way into a game that is behind a paywall for access right now. I also don't think the developers are unaware of these potential issues. I actually recall an interview on youtube with Josh Strife Hayes, where they were discussing the - let's call it troublesome - launch of New World back in 2022. ("Dev Log: Talking to Chris Wilson about Path of Exile", highly recommend checking it out if you're not aware already.) Anyway, in that long conversation, one of the things that came up was the in-game player economy, and the many complaints players had with the way it worked, which Josh covered in prior videos on that game. The exploits that allowed players to have unfathomable amounts of gold and crash markets not just for items, but player housing, too, the taxation, etc. Even then, the focus of economic stability specifically referred to those aforementioned exploits - which Chris rather confidently said are "very rare" for Path of Exile, and there hadn't been "significant economic damage" from said exploits. I bring this up because you're throwing around a lot of accusations on how the market is being mishandled. Price fixing, price manipulation, market rigging, manipulation, schemes, so on and so forth. Usually with those kinds of terms being thrown around I expect a deeper dive into the cause than what you provided which amounts to "look up a few items and you'll see I'm right". Chris has gone on record to say that he dislikes how data can be misused to identify issues that do not actually exist. However, when it comes to something like item drop rates, currency coming into the hands of players and leaving the game through players quitting, spending them as resources, and so on, I have no doubt his team can pull up huge set of data tracking every last Orb that is generated and whose hands it ends up in. Based on that prior assertion he made, if there was a lack of trust in the player economy - if the stability was under real threat - he would have to take the game offline until it was rectified. Or he'd be a liar. I think your idea is sound. I'm quite surprised that such a thing wasn't implemented already. But players would probably just find other ways to advertise their items and set up the meetings to make their trades, as they did before the system was in place. And, at the end of the day, what someone wants to price an item at seems irrelevant to me. If someone wants 1,000,000 divine orbs or whatever for an item that's very valuable for a build, but is a blatantly unreasonable ask... no one's going to buy it. The "price floor" you mentioned? It's a price ceiling. The cost that a player is willing and able to pay is all that matters, because at the end of the day, that's who the seller is beholden to. (You can also look into the Time Value of Money as a concept, here.) That listing will sit and rot because the rule of the player market in every game ever is: someone will always, ALWAYS, undercut you. It may take some patience, but that's been true in all games where I've engaged with a deep player economy. So, please, if you believe there is some deep-rooted conspiracy by some entities to crash the market and make trading infeasible for the playerbase at large, you have to give something more concrete than what you've provided. That's more for your sake than anyone else's, if you feel so strongly that you're onto something this big. |
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" While I agree there's market manipulation as listed by OP, this example is terrible and actually harms this topic's discussion. No one's going to buy this and this is not the majority of items listed. The more realistic ones to point out to are the mediocre items listed at 1 div (due to said manipulation) which make up a larger portion of the trade market now which may make trading more difficult for newer players who are new to how currencies work in PoE. Zuletzt bearbeitet von frankshmank#3123 um 02.01.2025, 02:47:32
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To the Person Dismissing My Concerns as a "Conspiracy":
Your knee-jerk reaction labels this as a conspiracy, yet you fail to address the actual evidence. My point isn’t baseless speculation—it's backed by what’s openly visible on the trade forum. For example, I’ve highlighted listings like level 30 grey items priced at 9,999,999 Mirror Orbs or items listed for 999,999,999 Divine Orbs, both of which blatantly defy common sense. These are not isolated incidents; they’re symptoms of a broken system designed to obscure actual value and inflate prices for profit. Instead of engaging with the clear examples I’ve provided, your response ignores the issue entirely. You bring up undercutting as though it’s the real problem—but I'd rather see honest competition where an item drops from 3 Exalts to 2 Exalts through undercutting than see it artificially inflated from 150 Divines to 145 Divines to manipulate the market. The Core Issue: Path of Exile 2’s trade forum is mirroring the exact same issues we saw in Path of Exile 1. This isn't conjecture; it’s an observable fact. The system lacks tools to create a level playing field for honest players, and instead, it enables a market ripe for exploitation by bots, 3rd-party sellers, and manipulators who artificially inflate prices to profit off the game economy. And let me address your lack of acknowledgment: The specific example I provided of a level 30 grey item listed for 9,999,999 Mirrors is undeniable proof of how broken the system is. If you’re watching the same videos and engaging with the same trade system, how can you dismiss this as “normal” or “acceptable”? It’s not—it's a blatant abuse that only benefits manipulators and bots, not the broader player base. My Stance: Path of Exile 2 deserves better than a copy-paste of Path of Exile 1’s broken trade system. If you disagree with that, fine—but don’t expect me to take your dismissal seriously when you’re ignoring obvious abuses in the current system. If your real concern is that implementing tools to fix this might harm 3rd-party sites or gold sellers (which you might even be a part of), then I understand why you'd push back. But let me be clear: the developers will know before release that this broken system will lead to consequences. If the game remains dominated by niche players manipulating other niche players, then fine—that’s all it will be. But if we want a healthy, thriving community, we need tools that ensure fairness and transparency in the trade system. That’s not a conspiracy—that’s common sense. PERIOD. Brewskie
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LMAO okay. You went from talking about "documented evidence", as if that was just going to conjure it up for the reader out of thin air, and then baselessly accuse me of being affiliated with RMT when I asked for clarification? Now that's real paranoid of you.
(And, again, I said I thought your idea was sound. Did you miss the part where we agreed on something?) I'm done trying to provide my perspective to help you get your point across better. Enjoy your trading - or don't! |
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Ill actually do what your unable to do and i will post this in the Suggestions.
Revised and Enhanced Solutions for Fixing the Trade System After thoroughly reviewing the issues, examples (like the 9,999,999 Mirror listings and 500,000 Divine posts), and the mechanics in Path of Exile 1, it’s clear that Path of Exile 2 needs a revolutionary trade system overhaul—not a recycled version of the original. Here’s the final optimized approach: Core Problems Addressed Unrealistic Pricing: Obvious abuse of the system, such as listings for unattainable values (e.g., 9,999,999 Mirrors for low-value items), skews market perception and blocks honest trading. Manipulation by Third-Party Sites: RMT sites and bots artificially inflate prices, cornering parts of the market and profiting at the expense of genuine players. Lack of Transparency: Players, especially new or casual ones, lack tools to determine fair prices, leading to a discouraging and confusing trading experience. Copy-Paste System: POE 1's trade system allowed similar exploitation, which alienated many players. POE 2 must not repeat this. Optimized Solutions 1. Listing Cap Tied to Gameplay Progress Mechanism: Players can post a limited number of items on the trade forum or marketplace based on their gameplay progression and activity: Progression: Higher-level characters unlock more trade slots. Activity: Regular gameplay (maps run, monsters killed, etc.) adds temporary trade slots. Reasoning: This discourages bots or inactive players from flooding the market, while active players—especially average ones—can participate fairly. Example: A level 90 player who actively farms has 20 trade slots. A bot farming low-level content remains capped at 5 trade slots. 2. Tiered Gold Posting Fees Mechanism: Charge players gold (a non-tradable, in-game-only currency) to list items, scaled based on the item’s price. Example: Items priced < 10 Chaos Orbs = 1 Gold. Items priced between 10-50 Chaos Orbs = 5 Gold. Items priced over 50 Chaos Orbs = 1% of the listed price in Gold. Reasoning: This discourages excessive or frivolous high-priced listings (e.g., 9,999,999 Mirrors) and ensures players consider the cost of posting an item. Implementation Bonus: Gold cannot be traded or bought, so bots and RMT sites can’t bypass this system without actively playing the game. 3. Verified Pricing Tool Powered by AI Mechanism: AI scans item stats (mods, rarity, level) and assigns a suggested price range based on actual market activity. Items listed outside this range are flagged for review or marked with a "Price Outlier" tag, warning buyers of potential manipulation. Reasoning: This creates a transparent baseline for fair pricing and discourages dishonest practices. It also educates players on what constitutes reasonable pricing. 4. In-Game Marketplace (Replacing the Forum) Mechanism: Replace or supplement the trade forum with an in-game trade market: Items are listed with fixed prices. Buyers can instantly purchase if they meet the asking price. Listings are time-limited (e.g., 24 hours), and relisting incurs additional fees. Reasoning: This system eliminates the need for manual messaging and back-and-forth negotiations while creating a smoother, fairer trade experience. Anti-Bot and Anti-Manipulation Enhancements 5. AI to Detect Manipulative Listings Mechanism: AI flags and removes listings that show clear signs of manipulation: Unrealistic pricing (e.g., level 30 items listed for 9,999,999 Mirrors). Abnormal trading activity (e.g., repeated low-value items listed at extremely high prices). Excessive relisting of the same items. Reasoning: Directly tackles the most obvious abuse cases, ensuring a cleaner market for average players. 6. Tracking Trade History Mechanism: Introduce a trade history ledger for public visibility: Players can view the last 10 trades of an item type, including the selling price. Example: A player looking for a unique helmet can see its recent sales history to assess fair market value. Reasoning: Provides transparency, helping honest players understand pricing trends and preventing misinformation. 7. Gold Rewards Based on Gameplay Mechanism: Increase gold rewards for players based on time spent actively engaging with challenging game content: Example: Players farming Tier 14-16 maps earn significantly more gold/hour than those in Tier 1-5 maps. Gold is earned from combat, crafting, and league mechanics—not just logging in. Reasoning: Ensures that active, honest players have enough resources to participate in trading, while bots and inactive players struggle to keep up. Final Implementation: Incentivizing Fair Play 8. Dynamic Posting Limits Mechanism: Set dynamic listing limits based on player behavior: Active, fair traders who complete trades gain bonus slots. Manipulators and spammers lose posting privileges (e.g., flagged accounts are capped at 1-2 slots). Reasoning: Rewards honest participation while punishing disruptive behavior. 9. Real-Time Price Recommendations Mechanism: AI provides real-time price guidance when listing items, educating players on realistic pricing based on market trends and recent sales. Reasoning: Helps average players navigate the market and prevents accidental overpricing or undervaluing of items. 10. Community Feedback Integration Mechanism: Add a player-driven feedback system for the trade market: Players can upvote or flag listings as "fair," "inflated," or "manipulative." Listings with excessive negative feedback are reviewed or removed by moderators. Reasoning: Empowers the community to self-regulate and reduces reliance on bots or bad actors. Why This is Better Fair for Honest Players: It gives casual and average players tools to compete fairly without relying on bots or third-party sellers. Deters Manipulators: Posting fees and limited trade slots ensure that manipulators can’t flood the market with bogus listings. Educates Players: Pricing tools and trade history empower players with knowledge, leveling the playing field. Streamlined Trading: An in-game marketplace simplifies transactions, removing frustrations caused by forum-based systems. See that wasn't so hard, was it? Brewskie
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you can filter price on the trade website. i think your argument is completely invalid.
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don't give up, just don't call me a theory. The proof is right in front of everyone if they do their own research.
Brewskie
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