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The problem is that if you add ranged zoning to enemies then they will hit melee chars even harder (mobs spamming areas on you from far away while you melee some guy).
The only way to challenge ranged chars and "require strategy" while not making melee even more broken is to limit them.
I disagree. Other options:
- Enemies could disengage and go into cover to recharge their shields/heal if attacked by a ranged character so the player would have to go after them. It would be much harder to get away from a melee character right in front of them.
- Enemies could have higher resistances against ranged attacks.
- Enemies could be much better in dodging the ranged attacks or have more mechanics to deflect the attack, e. g. by "raise shield", "dodge roll", "casting stone/frost wall" or something similar. Things that wouldn't work that well against close encounters. The "shield guys" in the "Mastodon Badlands" is a good example where ranged characters need to adjust their strategy because they're much harder to damage from the front.
- Enemies could work in teams and move around the player to attack from two or three directions instead of just one side. Granted, that would also be harder for melee, not just for ranged, but it would be a nice change compared to the old "LEEEEEROY JENIKINS!" method they usually apply.
I don't know if that would make ranged less fun, but I don't think it would. It would totally piss off the people who go for speedy map clearing, tho...
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Beitrag vonC4Guy#0918am 31.12.2024, 04:46:07
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The problem is that if you add ranged zoning to enemies then they will hit melee chars even harder (mobs spamming areas on you from far away while you melee some guy).
The only way to challenge ranged chars and "require strategy" while not making melee even more broken is to limit them.
I disagree. Other options:
- Enemies could disengage and go into cover to recharge their shields/heal if attacked by a ranged character so the player would have to go after them. It would be much harder to get away from a melee character right in front of them.
- Enemies could have higher resistances against ranged attacks.
- Enemies could be much better in dodging the ranged attacks or have more mechanics to deflect the attack, e. g. by "raise shield", "dodge roll", "casting stone/frost wall" or something similar. Things that wouldn't work that well against close encounters. The "shield guys" in the "Mastodon Badlands" is a good example where ranged characters need to adjust their strategy because they're much harder to damage from the front.
- Enemies could work in teams and move around the player to attack from two or three directions instead of just one side. Granted, that would also be harder for melee, not just for ranged, but it would be a nice change compared to the old "LEEEEEROY JENIKINS!" method they usually apply.
I don't know if that would make ranged less fun, but I don't think it would. It would totally piss off the people who go for speedy map clearing, tho...
Disengaging means fleeing enemies. Currently only a few of them do it and for slow melees (maces) it's already tragicomic. Fleeing is just super bad for melee and almost irrelevant for ranged.
High resistance to ranged is the same as lowering ranged skill damage, and that's what I meant with balancing.
Fast, ranged, AoE and auto-hit should just deal less damage compared to slow, melee, single target and accuracy based, imho.
Shields and rolls would be ok, but they are just intermittent / directional immunity so not a huge difference from proximity, but surely it would feel less "cheap".
For the enemy team tactics I just don't think there is gameplay-space for it in PoE... that would require a different game approach altoghether.
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The problem is that if you add ranged zoning to enemies then they will hit melee chars even harder (mobs spamming areas on you from far away while you melee some guy).
The only way to challenge ranged chars and "require strategy" while not making melee even more broken is to limit them.
I disagree. Other options:
- Enemies could disengage and go into cover to recharge their shields/heal if attacked by a ranged character so the player would have to go after them. It would be much harder to get away from a melee character right in front of them.
- Enemies could have higher resistances against ranged attacks.
- Enemies could be much better in dodging the ranged attacks or have more mechanics to deflect the attack, e. g. by "raise shield", "dodge roll", "casting stone/frost wall" or something similar. Things that wouldn't work that well against close encounters. The "shield guys" in the "Mastodon Badlands" is a good example where ranged characters need to adjust their strategy because they're much harder to damage from the front.
- Enemies could work in teams and move around the player to attack from two or three directions instead of just one side. Granted, that would also be harder for melee, not just for ranged, but it would be a nice change compared to the old "LEEEEEROY JENIKINS!" method they usually apply.
I don't know if that would make ranged less fun, but I don't think it would. It would totally piss off the people who go for speedy map clearing, tho...
Disengaging means fleeing enemies. Currently only a few of them do it and for slow melees (maces) it's already tragicomic. Fleeing is just super bad for melee and almost irrelevant for ranged.
High resistance to ranged is the same as lowering ranged skill damage, and that's what I meant with balancing.
Fast, ranged, AoE and auto-hit should just deal less damage compared to slow, melee, single target and accuracy based, imho.
Shields and rolls would be ok, but they are just intermittent / directional immunity so not a huge difference from proximity, but surely it would feel less "cheap".
For the enemy team tactics I just don't think there is gameplay-space for it in PoE... that would require a different game approach altoghether.
Imagine.. Proximal Tangibility, Haste, Flee... LMFAO that would be tragicomic to the core.
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Beitrag vonQticaX#4168am 31.12.2024, 05:01:09
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Disengaging means fleeing enemies. Currently only a few of them do it and for slow melees (maces) it's already tragicomic. Fleeing is just super bad for melee and almost irrelevant for ranged.
I'd say that depends on how it's implemented and it also depends on the map. Of course it's harder for enemies to flee in open fields than in rooms and fleeing in general could be limited to non-melee range encounters.
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High resistance to ranged is the same as lowering ranged skill damage, and that's what I meant with balancing.
But it wouldn't lower the ranged skill damage in general, only when engaging certain enemies.
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Fast, ranged, AoE and auto-hit should just deal less damage compared to slow, melee, single target and accuracy based, imho.
Agreed.
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Shields and rolls would be ok, but they are just intermittent / directional immunity so not a huge difference from proximity, but surely it would feel less "cheap".
Exactly. Also, it would still make it possible to place ranged attacks if you're smart about it. Enemies also shouldn't just constantly dodge roll all over the map, that's for sure.
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For the enemy team tactics I just don't think there is gameplay-space for it in PoE... that would require a different game approach altoghether.
Maybe. I had hoped that they'd implement more interesting enemy tactics in PoE 2, but unfortunately it's mostly just "LEROY JENKINS!" all over again...
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Imagine.. Proximal Tangibility, Haste, Flee... LMFAO that would be tragicomic to the core.
I think ability combinations should be limited anyway. Some should simply not be possible, others should be more rare than others.
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Beitrag vonC4Guy#0918am 31.12.2024, 05:31:23
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Imagine.. Proximal Tangibility, Haste, Flee... LMFAO that would be tragicomic to the core.
Add some mirage lightning and volatile plants to the equation, for fun :D
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a great combination is with different after death effects, eg. vollatiles and explosions.
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Beitrag vonVoid_xy#2904am 31.12.2024, 05:47:30
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Not to resurrect an old or dead thread but when it comes to Proximal Tangibility, the first time you encounter an enemy with this trait you might not be able to read the monster stat as you are in the middle of combat. Once you read this trait and realize you have to be standing close. The word 'proximal' comes from the Latin word 'proximus', which means 'close' or 'near'.. Obviously but no one talks like that unless it's a medical or science related terminology, usually. Just a weird developer choice of naming something that might hit your brain strangely the first time you read it. I'm not a fan of the mechanic it could have been explained or presented better, even the naming is strange.
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