10% xp penalty is far too frustrating

Even a regular projectile from a random white enemy can lead to a freeze leading to your death, playing maps is 24/7 concentration.

Honestly the endgame is lacking the game aspect of it.

Did over 130 maps and I've been asking myself this for a while now, where is the fun? Campaign was nice I could experiment with spells make mistakes and figure out stuff, now in end game I stick to what I know works since any experimentation could lead to death making me lose 1+hr of progress.

Endgame is not a game, it is a job. Constant stress to perform, if you get sneezed at you die (even with cap resistance and good defensive scaling) or you get ccd and die. Mobs outrun you. I have not even used dodge roll once, I kill bosses in seconds and kill mobs before they get to me. Dodge rolling just makes them attack me on recovery and kill me.

XP penalty is asinine and an archaic mechanic no one enjoys, my friend group is about to quit as well since if you work and have ~1hour of time to play in the evening then one death is 1-2days of gametime lost. That happens 2-3 times and that person is gone forever. Return for a league? Lol, you just die in endgame anyway and never progress. Those potential paying players will just play a more relaxing arpg which is shockingly worse but seems to bring in the money anyway, wonder why. Without friends playing I also have no reason to stick around since playing with others is always better, I am not friendless so trying to rush to level 100 is not something I have to deal with thankfully.

You shouldn't lose everything when you die in a map. Keep waystones, no xp penalty, no map benefits. If anything, you should be able to toggle death penalties for extra rewards (most notably xp bonus). Let people have their fun maximizing xp rushing for 100 and let the more casual playerbase enjoy progress at their own pace. People can toggle these features if they are confident in their character.

For a game about building your own character GGG sure does everything in their power to make sure you do not do that. Your own build might not work in end game, better copy a good players build and follow it. Crafting is not worth it, better trade for good items (fuck trading in that aspect) and deal with the coming chinese bots we all know and love.
So you copy a build, you buy items, what exactly are you doing? Not playing a rpg anymore. Why not play something else instead?
Back to a very niche game when the EA launch is evidence that there is a larger potential market. PoE1 exists already, PoE2 does not need to follow its mistakes.

XP loss is something that I hoped wouldn't return in POE2. The highest level I reached in POE1 is 98, I can't be bothered to try to reach level 100 because of how grindy it is, and the fear of losing hours of progress.

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Waitn4D4#0477 schrieb:

But this doesnt solve anything. GGG wants to make leveling meaningful and wants to create a hard wall for people if they cannot do content. They dont want people to just brute force their way to level 100, dying over and over and over and over again with endless portals in maps. FFS POE 2 has really drawn in a lot of casual players. D4 already exists if you want to reach level 100 and literally feel nothing because its not an accomplishment and means absolutely nothing.

The casual players are the future of the company and game, unless PoE 2 wants to die a slow death.

XP Penalty is simply outdated boomer shit.

I wouldn't even say it is about "casual players". XP penalty on death is just an outdated feature that needs modernization. That hasn't anything to do with catering to another audience.

I am playing this game for about 13 years on and off now. Things have changed.
There are ARPGs with a better endgame and trade/SSF mechanics - like Last Epoch.
There are ARPGs that are much more intuitive - like D4.
There are ARPGs that are a lot harder - like No Rest for the Wicked.
XP loss on death was a mechanic I was never a fan of but the evolution of games in the ARPG genre has just buried that relic deep unterneath better mechanics.

POE2 has the potential to be the king of ARPGs but they are severly lacking in adaptation to modern times. Currently, it is simply lacking vision and modernization to set new standards (exceptions being WASD movement and itemization). Other than that, it heavily relies on outdated mechanics like XP on death. That's really starting to shine through IMHO and I am starting to get worried the EA phase can really fix that.
They are developing a successor to POE1 but it might not come out as the new genre standard :(

+1

XP loss on death is a legacy feature that has no place in a modern ARPG.

+1
When you die you lose the map, the bonuses it had, the bosses, the special map / path if that was the case... it's already punishing and feels high stakes to me, and I like it.

Losing the xp is just an additional super-heavy penalty that not only feels "disrespectful" of the gaming time, but also prevents improvement and basically can lock you into a circle of losses that eventually makes you quit.

Maybe losing the map xp could be reasonable but not a fixed % of the current level.

Also, this heavily discourages players from trying to play higher level / harder maps with high risk reward (a very fun thing to do!) and forces people to the low and slow grind, wich ALSO pushes people to stop playing.

Seems to me a lose-lose-lose situation. (lose xp - lose fun - lose players)

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Macellomatik#7988 schrieb:

+1
When you die you lose the map, the bonuses it had, the bosses, the special map / path if that was the case... it's already punishing and feels high stakes to me, and I like it.

Losing the xp is just an additional super-heavy penalty that not only feels "disrespectful" of the gaming time, but also prevents improvement and basically can lock you into a circle of losses that eventually makes you quit.

Maybe losing the map xp could be reasonable but not a fixed % of the current level.

Also, this heavily discourages players from trying to play higher level / harder maps with high risk reward (a very fun thing to do!) and forces people to the low and slow grind, wich ALSO pushes people to stop playing.

Seems to me a lose-lose-lose situation. (lose xp - lose fun - lose players)

Exactly.

I've never played any character in POE1 much beyond level 90-94 because I always felt it wasn't worth my time. I've got family, I've got dogs. I don't want a game to feel like work after having worked for 10 hours. And I certainly don't feel any "pride" in having a level 100 char.
Still I don't consider myself being a casual dad, as - if I feel like it - I can put well beyond 100 hours into a game within a week or two.

+1 either 6 portals with exp penalty, or 1 portal without. both is not fun.

+1

I posted in another thread about XP loss and one portal maps. They are bad design choices. I'm in early maps, and just died to something silly. 100% my fault. For that, I dropped from 30% into level 75 to 20% and lost my last waypoint of reasonable tier. At this level, that is about one map run, which means my prior completed map was useless as far as XP gains go. Nothing good dropped in the previous map, so the only gain was incrementing the complete 10 maps of a tier quest.

The old fashioned, punishing style of gameplay is outdated. While anyone can have whatever opinion they want, I reserve the right to call those opinions silly. The people who like punishing gameplay are the same folks who like dropping gear when dying in an MMO. Can you have this opinion? Sure, but I think it's dumb and would never play an MMO with such a feature.

Just reframe these difficult aspects of the game with positive framing:

XP loss -> XP bonuses for completing maps without dying.

One portal -> x portals for some reasonable value of x, and get extra rewards for unused portals on map completion.

Waypoint bricked? Use your imagination GGG.

* * *

Part of the antiquated design philosophy seen in PoE 2 seems to ignore the fact that you want people playing your game for hours on end. One death, XP losing maps are stressful and not conducive to long game sessions for most people. Reframing punishing design choices with a positive frame lets the degen gamers stay ahead of everyone else, but us filthy casuals get to actually play.

One aspect of the game that is not punishing is the boss resetting on death. Since the bosses are intentionally more souls-like, they should obviously reset.

I have enjoyed early access so far, but am already losing desire to log in... Because the needlessly punishing mechanics make the game less fun. It is possible to maximize fun without taking the punishing pill.

I feel like the xp curve for mapping is so focused on the top end you have to farm T15+ or forget about seeing levels if you die. Also hot take: If you build ES in the current state of the game you won't understand this thread at all. It is drastically stronger than life right now.