PoE2: One death in map and its bricked.

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dwqrf#0717 schrieb:

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onexxx#0361 schrieb:

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PoE2 isn't PoE1. If you want to play half afk watching a movie, you can still do it in PoE1. I don't think asking a new game designed to be more challenging, methodic and strategic to be more braindead is the way to go.

It isnt PoE1, but it's it's sequel and still an ARPG. The endgame is also not that far from poe1, and not that much more challenging or methodic either, exept bosses if your build takes time to kill them. It's even more grindy than the first game when it comes to pinnacle bosses, that makes multiple attemps even more needed.

I don't really see why I'd go back to PoE1 right now. Not liking some mechanics does not mean that I don't like the game overall, or that I want it to be just PoE1 with nicer graphics (also PoE2 did harm PoE1, we are still on a league that started last summer).

And well ... Top builds are already zooming into maps, because cleaning 3 screens ahead is safer than playing more challenging, methodic and strategic builds. Punishment on encounters is not a good challenge as a baseline, it pushes that kind of build meta without letting subpar builds have their way with the game.
Souls game understood that quite well. If you want hard, methodic encounters, you need to let players die and try again without being too harsh on the penalty. Then if players want to add harsh punishments, they can (hardcore or deathless runs as added challenge). PoE is even worse because of the RNG involved everywhere in the game, being loot, rare monsters affixes and on death mechanics, that leads to some quite unfair deaths.

Lastly, if you don't like the idea of the 6 portals, with what I suggest you are not really impacted either, you would still have the option to just spec for it. It just needs to give a strong enough upside to compensate. We could both play the game in a way that suits both of us, and with you having an edge on me because you used a keystone with an hefty downside and upside.

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Toforto#2372 schrieb:

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dwqrf#0717 schrieb:

PoE2 isn't PoE1. If you want to play half afk watching a movie, you can still do it in PoE1. I don't think asking a new game designed to be more challenging, methodic and strategic to be more braindead is the way to go.

Except for the fact that PoE 2 right now is just a worse,dumbed down PoE 1 with objectively worse systems. People who have experience with the game can clearly see this. And there are many builds that clear screens and oneshot bosses lmao

If you aren't playing those meta builds, you're just intentionally handicapping yourself and playing with a disadvantage. You're making less currency,mapping slower and dying more.


So this argument of "its not poe 1" is meaningless, its the devs who made it possible for the endgame to turn int poe 1 gameplay. And the players will always follow the meta, the most OP builds possible.

This is why people are giving feedback to improve the current game, this is a feedback forum. You add nothing to the conversation by just saying "game is fine go play x,y or z". If the game is so perfect you should go play it all day instead of constantly invalidating people's actual feedback. You are actively trying to prevent the game from improving.

You don't even play the game, why are you here harassing people and sowing discord?

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dwqrf#0717 schrieb:

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Toforto#2372 schrieb:

This needs to be removed if they don't want to lose a lot of players.

I'm never touching this game as long as it has this trash 1 portal per map design.

Ok ! This is fine by us.

Pretty much.

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dwqrf#0717 schrieb:

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onexxx#0361 schrieb:

I don't think that one portal as a base mechanic is good for the game. ARPG with that much grind needs you to play quite a lot, a lot of us have been mapping in softcore with a video on a secondary monitor for example, and I do really think that it's fine. Not everyone wants a game that is both meant to be played 150/200h in the span of a month to 45 days (very rough and not accurate estimate of an average endgame enjoyer playtime on this kind of game) and that requires you to be perfectly focused on it for 95% of the playtrough.

Also, forcing this kind of "hardcorish" (yes it's not hardcore, but the more the game punish you on death, the more we need to play as if it was) mechanic as mandatory content reduces build diversity. It forces you to build in what's the strongest in both damage and defences, because a subpar build will not just be less efficient, but also frustrating to play.

That does not mean we need to completely go back to the PoE1 way of doing things either. PoE1 allows you to cheese encounters, in a game where bosses are supposed to be a challenge that does not sound good.

Here is what I think would be a good middle ground:

- Back to 6 portals as the baseline. Self explainatory.

- Back to bosses on every map. They are the huge GG of the game, let us fight them more often ! They of course still are mandatory to defeat in order to complete the map.

- On your death, monsters still alive (boss included of course) go back to full life. No cheesing, more opportunities to learn from an encounter.

- Make one portal per map a keystone to opt-in in the atlas tree, with an upside. I get that there are people who likes the one portal way of playing. One of the strongest point of PoE1 is how much you can customise your endgame, tailor it to your liking. It seems that GGG wants that in PoE2 too, so making it possible to have both type of mapping experience aviable souds like the right thing to do.

PoE2 isn't PoE1. If you want to play half afk watching a movie, you can still do it in PoE1. I don't think asking a new game designed to be more challenging, methodic and strategic to be more braindead is the way to go.

Funnily enough most people are playing poe2 exactly like 1, 1 button sleep inducing 1 button screen clearing builds.

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BK2710#6123 schrieb:

The magic vocal minority, heard that one before. Seemed to never work because it turned out to be the actual customer base.

Nope, it's not.

It's a tiny little group of karens.

Look at the forums of ANY video game. You'll notice roughly 90-95% of complaining posts. Made by who ? Roughly 1-5% of the community. Always the same exact people, complaining over and over because the imaginary product they want doesn't exist and they can't ever be satisfied with reality. And they are really loud because nothing ever go their ways.

People enjoying the product, the rest of the 95% of the playerbase ? They play, have fun, and when they don't, they move on. Silently. They don't need to leave positive comment, or negative comment, why bother ? They can accept reality and judge for themselves if a product satisfy them or not. They don't need to make noise, and they can trust the makers to keep creating content their way that will still and again either please them or not.

The vocal minority makes unnecessary waves for non-issues based on feelings of entitlment and constant disapointment. If you -as a company- are scared of the negative press it create and start to catter to them (endlessly) in the name of greed, you'll lose everything you are and what you stand for and become an empty skeleton that people will just flee (like Blizzard).

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dwqrf#0717 schrieb:

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BK2710#6123 schrieb:

The magic vocal minority, heard that one before. Seemed to never work because it turned out to be the actual customer base.

Nope, it's not.

It's a tiny little group of karens.

Look at the forums of ANY video game. You'll notice roughly 90-95% of complaining posts. Made by who ? Roughly 1-5% of the community. Always the same exact people, complaining over and over because the imaginary product they want doesn't exist and they can't ever be satisfied with reality. And they are really loud because nothing ever go their ways.

People enjoying the product, the rest of the 95% of the playerbase ? They play, have fun, and when they don't, they move on. Silently. They don't need to leave positive comment, or negative comment, why bother ? They can accept reality and judge for themselves if a product satisfy them or not. They don't need to make noise, and they can trust the makers to keep creating content their way that will still and again either please them or not.

The vocal minority makes unnecessary waves for non-issues based on feelings of entitlment and constant disapointment. If you -as a company- are scared of the negative press it create and start to catter to them (endlessly) in the name of greed, you'll lose everything you are and what you stand for and become an empty skeleton that people will just flee (like Blizzard).

The 95% playing the game still did not reach end game. One of my friends is playing since EA launch and he only yesterday reached act 3 cruel playing every time he has free time to play. You have the right idea but you do not realize that you argue against your own position with it as well.

Agree with OP: the death removes map mods needs to go. Here I am playing for an hour after not having had time to play for almost a week and die on a boss in my tier 9 map, simply because I'm not familiar with the mechanics, and this happened about 2 seconds into the fight by something that happened when the boss was off-screen. No chance to learn anything, nada, nop.

The only thing I learned here is that apparently I need to gather the gear that allows me to oneshot bosses even on t15 maps if I ever get there. If you want to reward skill you should be able to learn to fight and kill a boss even with suboptimal gear, but that requires multiple attempts in succession. Not the odd chance that you run into a map with the same boss again.

The game seems to be too focused on your gear atm and too little on skill, not just for the bosses: The way mobs work you are best off (as a sorc) to focus on killing mobs off your screen rather then on your screen. Personally I don't think a game is very interesting when you kill things you can't see. I had the same with EVE online: what I found worked best was to kill ships when they are 1 pixel. I quit simply because I wanted to see beautiful close up fights but you're in no way encouraged to do them cause you are extremely likely to die as a result.

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onexxx#0361 schrieb:

It isnt PoE1, but it's it's sequel and still an ARPG. The endgame is also not that far from poe1, and not that much more challenging or methodic either, exept bosses if your build takes time to kill them. It's even more grindy than the first game when it comes to pinnacle bosses, that makes multiple attemps even more needed.

This sums it up really well.

PoE 2 is supposed to be a challenging game. The punishments are preventing that from happening.

Punishing or challenging: Pick one.

The punishments drive players to avoid the challenges, and the devs can't create content that requires multiple deaths to overcome. Progression becomes a simple chore: stick to the easy content and grind.

Agree, very annoying and ends up with the game being very time consuming.

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Pashid#4643 schrieb:

Nah
It's a good system to reward skill and well optimized characters/gameplay rather than handing out instant gratification to 6 portal zhp glass cannon corpse runners.

This system would fit really well into PoE1 as well tbh.

I agree, they did this also to gatekeep you from dying over and over like in POE1.. there you lose 60% XP at 90+ if you use all available portals up.. people think the XP loss is so bad here.. lmfao yeah right. GGG is protecting you from losing days of XP in a single map.