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SkylerOG schrieb:

No, what's irritating is guys who consistently play level 100 chars with 500+ exa worth of gear and jewels and years worth of gathering understanding of mechanics not taking into consideration the VAST MAJORITY of us folks who only ever make it to the low-mid 90's levels with a fraction of worth of gear and currency you guys have, and that we too are trying to make sense of your guide rationale and gather understanding of mechanics rather than just be mindless lemmings.

And then when we question clearly questionable details, we get patronized and told to just accept everything you've said as fact. Because, ya know, you guys who make guides are apparently infallible and never make mistakes, and we're "irritating" if we think we've found a mistake or want to make sense of game mechanics, too.

Before I start my comment, here are a few things I would like to address
1. I am not here to pick a fight, nor i am here to create a drama.
2. I apologize for any behavior or comment or sentence of mine that will or have or offended you, including the comments from the past. As that is never my intention.

With that being said, imma start.

Do you know why it is difficult to maintain a guide? It's because constant new stuff is coming in and out and we never will know. And I never told you that you "must" accept this, what I'm telling you is the results from my research, and I show it to you. Is it a fact or opinion? Your judgement.
Aight before I go down to there I want to clarify that I am not here to teach you how you should play, my guides are more like "Here is what I've studied, and this is what I recommend". If you think +3 bow is better in your case, then by all means go ahead.

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SkylerOG schrieb:

Your test is bunk.

The TR vines/DoT don't have a hit chance/"on hit" function. Therefore the test using golden rule/poison can't possibly be precise. I don't know how many times I have to repeat that before you acknowledge it and stop posting pictures of gems about your accuracy and chance to poison.

Again, those reflected poisons only tell us that either your arrows HIT or the pod explosions HIT. Hence, poison on HIT. They can't possibly tell us if and how many vines/DoT's were applied.

AND AGAIN, it was also a moving target who very well could have been moving in and out of range of the pods.

You've been inconsistent about this from the start of replying to me. First you said that the arrows, in relation to your mouse pointer, land in the same radius/diameter as what's showing in PoB for the vines and explosions, but then everything I read that was cited by the TR PoE Wiki says that is not the case. The radius of pod placement is LARGER than the radius of vine/DoT/explosion range.

Which again means that your experiment against a moving target is clearly questionable. Hence why I said the test should have been done against a stationary target with a huge hit box like Kitava.

The target can move means the target will always be moving? I mean clearly on the video I have forced him stopped moving by standing right below him, forcing him to lock at his position when he is casting spells. And again creating a controlled environment is not easy. Kitava is a special case for a boss that have the largest hitbox and never moves, I doubt that there will be more than 100 people that actually likes Belfry / Lava Lake map. I don't feel that that is a reasonable place to conduct research as 99.9999999% of the boss aren't the same as Kitava. Besides that, I think general monsters should share the same hitbox as that Beach map boss, hence it's a reason why I've chosen it.

Besides that I do understand the hit and DoT function, but my point is the explosion Hit radius and vines reach radius is the same. Why is that? Because I am fairly sure there will be multiple options for you to choose on the PoB to determine the area if the Explosion Hit and the Vines Reach is different. So tl;dr, they should be the same, SHOULD. Hence I concluded that explosion = vines reach ; explosion poison hit = pods vines overlap. Again, from my testings and research, the explosion on hit range is the same as the vines reach range, hence the number of self poisoned via golden rule should be the amount of pods that overlapped on the same target.

If you want to prove me wrong by all means go ahead, you know what you should do if you want to prove me wrong. I won't hesitate to change my guide to the correct / up to date ones.

Even then, If I set my explosion right now to 7, the damage numbers doesn't felt like the same. It's like someone saying that "I have 30M dps" but the video shows that the life of the boss drain slower than a 5M dps buid. It just doesn't feel right either (this is an example).

Tr chance to hit and DoT is different, well I do agree on this one, because my guide did said that the chance to hit and DoT are both different in mechanics, but they share the same radius from what I've seen.

"Stop posting....", I mean that's just only 1 picture. Because you're saying that my chance to hit is 86%, so that's to prove that I used a different gem setup for my research to ensure my results are absolute.

Now again for moving targets, I stand close to him so he will not move, then fire a TR to perform the test. Did he moved during the test? Yes he did, but did he moved during all of the fire shots I made? No. And did I hit 6 overlap? Yes, because I attacked slightly too fast, but did I ever hit 7 overlap (because that's what the reddits says)? No. Hence why I concluded that.

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First you said that the arrows, in relation to your mouse pointer, land in the same radius/diameter as what's showing in PoB for the vines and explosions

I never stated that, that's basically putting words to my mouth. I searched back through the discussion we have and I didn't found that I've stated that. The closest to that statement from what I've said is

"Conc effect does not "squeeze" or make the pods "stick" closer together. It just reduces the AoE. Only lesser arrows will do that. Same goes to Increase AoE. It only increases the AoE, it does not increase the spread (I've explained this on mechanics section too)"

That's my assumption for what makes you think I've stated that i guess.

I don't think I need to repeat why I don't think Kitava is a suitable target do I? But if you really want me to test it, you gotta wait for couple of weeks as I am busy during these few days unless I manage to make room for myself. I will be performing the test on stream if you want.

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SkylerOG schrieb:

You guys are not infallible.

First you point me to the TR PoE Wiki page, and then when I study the sites that the wiki page cites/links to explain/confirm TR mechanics, you tell me it's "false".

Your PoB in your guide has a "woke gem 3.11 final" using a rare bow, but now you're saying it's not the most updated one and you're using a Quill Rain.

How the hell is anyone here supposed to know that the "3.11 final" isn't actually the most recent? Why is it in the guide if it's not? Where exactly is the most updated one because it's not very clear, as "3.11 final" doesn't apparently mean what it says?

Ok this might have confused you, so I apologize for that confusion I made. What I said is false is the "Overlapping of the pods in relation of your AoE". What makes me think it is false?

First of all, the numbers doesn't fit my experience (explained above)
Secondly, the overlapping is far too off (I've tried Woke Inc AoE, which is x3.1 AoE mod, 31 raidus, and I hit 6 self poison so I can clearly conclude that it can't be 7 overlaps). So when one part is false, I had to say the rest of them are false. This goes only to the reddit thread in terms of AoE and Overlap relations.

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This is anecdotal at best.

You're on a char that's level 98-100 with insanely good gear that has obscene amounts of +% DoT Multiplier, +% chaos damage, + gem levels, and 2 sets of perfect cluster jewels that include multiple wicked pall's/student of decay and tempered arrows/broadside, crazy good jewels, and a near perfect watcher's eye worth a small fortune.

I do active searches every day for things for this build like what you have and they either don't exist or they are worth hundreds of exalts and are completely unattainable.

The intended league for this build is on Softcore Trade, not Standard League, the prices will be different no matter what.
Here is my search for the most expensive jewel I bought
https://www.pathofexile.com/trade/search/Harvest/X3rby3RuP - On League
https://www.pathofexile.com/trade/search/Standard/X3rby3RuP - On Standard.

In case you don't know why it is different, lemme explain. Due to the insanely low amount of players playing in standard, obtaining items are no easy task, this includes getting Unique items.

Cold Iron Point (not related to this build)
https://www.pathofexile.com/trade/search/Standard/eR6oy8ghL
https://www.pathofexile.com/trade/search/Harvest/eR6oy8ghL

So prices for STD will always be 10 times more expensive.

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When I swap out my 6 exa rare bow for my Quill Rain, the rare bow does noticeably more damage and kills things faster.

The math I've done also shows the rare bow being significantly more DPS than the Quill Rain.


So why are they similar in your video? Don't know exactly. I'm guessing it's because you have insane gear and jewels everywhere and EVERYTHING dies in seconds to your char no matter what bow you're using.

Maybe you got a handful of crits, or the moving mob stayed in your DoT radius longer in one vs the other, or maybe the damage RNG just blessed you in one and crapped on your in the other.

We'll never know.


But what I do know is it's frustrating when you're trying to have fun by trying to gain understanding of the game and you're condescended by elder players.

If that's what your results are then by all means use it. Why they are similar goes down to how similar to your build compared to mine. If you went with your variation of setup, ofc you cannot compare your build with mine because it is obviously different. Even you think that certain parts can be changed won't be a big effect, it actually will cause a huge effect.

I did analyzed the video, the only difference is I can point out is the wither effect lasted longer for the Quill Rain than the +3 bow (you can see the wither totem went down faster for +3). But even then is that a 30ex difference should be?

I guess I will need to give certain points why Quill Rain is better than +3 bow but I will explain it right here for your sake.

1. +3 bow is difficult to obtain
To craft that +3 bow, it is a pain in the ass, has been confirmed by multiple people as RNG can screw you hard on this one.

2. Price
quill rain is only 1c excluding the +1 arrow. Even then obtaining the +1 arrow corruption is not as difficult and expensive compared to crafting a +3 bow.

3. Experiences
Quill Rain has a faster attack speed, on mapping it will be smoother to play with, it attacks faster and you move a lot faster. This also reduce your casting animation delay. Hence Quill Rain would feel a lot better in terms of enjoyment.

4. Quill Rain is hard to compete
As you can see, +3 bow barely outperforms the Quill Rain, that's a 30ex difference. Should there be even a competition to begin with on a 30ex bow and a 1c bow?

I never said I am better than you at any point of time, nor did I said your ideas are trash or anything. When you said about your TR totems, I just stated why wither totem would be better and why you shouldn't use TR totems because you seemed too into it without looking at the downsides so I just share some to you. If I think i am 100% right at everything, I would say your setup is trash, but did I? I just said that I personally dislike that particular setup but I didn't say it is bad tho?

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Your PoB in your guide has a "woke gem 3.11 final" using a rare bow, but now you're saying it's not the most updated one and you're using a Quill Rain.

How the hell is anyone here supposed to know that the "3.11 final" isn't actually the most recent? Why is it in the guide if it's not? Where exactly is the most updated one because it's not very clear, as "3.11 final" doesn't apparently mean what it says?

I believe that the "3.11 Final" is at the bottom left side which stated "Final lvl 98 Tree" which means the final points you are going to spend for a lvl 98 Tree. Simple as that, if you got misunderstanding or unsure you can just state it. My PoB will never be final as new information will come in and out so I had to optimize it. Just recently there's a guy noted me that my tree can be more efficient cus I wasted a few points, I noticed that, thanked him and changed my tree. And hence why the new PoB is updated.

I do not have much time for the next few days, if you do want to ask questions, please sum it up and simplify it because I don't really want to waste a long time looking at a wall of text to find your main point. I do want to leave you a reply, but the longer your reply gets the longer mine has to get and the more time I have to spend to leave the reply (Just like this one). And because I was prioritizing replying you I got distracted on my work and now I had to rush it (Though I do not blame you for this, but you get my point).