Summon Phantasm on Kill scaling and interactions?

First off, I'm talking about the Summon Phantasm on Kill support gem, not about the skill granted by the Soulwrest unique item.

Do the summoned phantasms benefit from Spell Echo? A cursory reading would suggest no, triggered skills don't benefit from Spell Echo. However, the support isn't the gem that's summoning them, the skill that does the kill summons them, which isn't a triggered skill. All other triggers like cast on crit are clearly labeled as trigger gems, Summon Phantasm on Kill isn't.

Second, does the level of the Summon Phantasm on Kill support gem dictate the level of the summoned phantasms, or does the level of the skill that summons them do that? I know the level of the support scales the amount of phantasms that can be active, but am not sure about the minionlevel.

edit: Path of building says that Spell Echo Support works and that Empower Support boosts the dps but not the amount of minions. Not sure if it's correctly implemented though.

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Cynooo schrieb:

First off, I'm talking about the Summon Phantasm on Kill support gem, not about the skill granted by the Soulwrest unique item.

Do the summoned phantasms benefit from Spell Echo? A cursory reading would suggest no, triggered skills don't benefit from Spell Echo. However, the support isn't the gem that's summoning them, the skill that does the kill summons them, which isn't a triggered skill. All other triggers like cast on crit are clearly labeled as trigger gems, Summon Phantasm on Kill isn't.

Second, does the level of the Summon Phantasm on Kill support gem dictate the level of the summoned phantasms, or does the level of the skill that summons them do that? I know the level of the support scales the amount of phantasms that can be active, but am not sure about the minionlevel.

edit: Path of building says that Spell Echo Support works and that Empower Support boosts the dps but not the amount of minions. Not sure if it's correctly implemented though.

When you kill a target and summon a Phantasm, Spell Echo support will not summon a second Phantasm for you. The Phantasm itself will be able to repeat the spell they use, which is that piercing arrow type attack. So, the Phantasm itself is casting faster from the Spell Echo support.


That said, I suggest not using Summon Phantasm, it is garbage.

Bumping since SPoK got some more relevance this upcoming patch.

Do the Phantasms scale with the level of the gems that gets the kill and thus summons them, or do they scale with the level of the SPoK gem itself?

Also, some confirmation that echo does indeed work would be great.

well the exact wording is:

"When those skills or minions kill enemies, they will have a chance to summon a Phantasm minion, which uses a piercing projectile spell that deals physical damage"

so Spell Echo will;

a. support the skill that has a chance to summon phantasms
b. make the phantasms use their piercing projectile physical spell twice, but lower their damage

keywords for other supports:

-spell (echo, faster casting, controlled destruction..)
-minion (minionDPS, minionlife, minionspeed...)
-projectile (slower proj, faster proj, vicious projectiles...)
-physical (does PpAD still exists??, added fire, Hatred...)

-piercing
from wiki:
"only one projectile behavior can be applied each time a projectile hits a target. Pierce has first priority for projectile behaviors, followed by chain, fork then return. This means that if you had pierce, chain, and fork supporting the same skill, it would first pierce to it's maximum number of pierces, then chain to its maximum number of chains, and only then would it be able to fork"

if you use the Baron, then half of your STR is added to minions AKA you could use Iron Grip/Will

i cannot find any info about their basedamage/life, so it must came from the gemlevels or its just a flat value

Thanks for the clarification, although some of you gem choices were wrong, like Iron Grip and Vicious Projectiles (attack only).

This leaves the question of what level the summoned Phantasms are. Here's how things work in Path of Building, according to Openarl phantasm damage is implemented properly, but it seems really weird to me. So I'd like some people's feedback on it.



- The Phantasms summoned have a level based on the skill that got the kill. This means that corrupting to lvl21 active gems or adding Empower boosts their dps.

- When supporting Raise Spectre the phantasms gain the spectre's level, which is significantly higher than any other minion. Roughly equivalent to a minion summoned from a level 28 gem.

- Summoned Phantasms gain a bonus/penalty from the active gem it is linked to. This means stuff like: minions gain more/less dmg/movement/life/ES from the Raise Spectre gem.


What's your take? Any truth to this? Official answer would be nice, but you know, minions...

For future googlers: no to all 3 of those points. The Summon Phantasm on Kill support gem is what determines the lvl of the phantasms.

I was just trying to wrap my head around this when noticing inconsistencies between soulwrest and spectre supported phantasm DPS. Does this mean PoB is unreliable at the moment? How can I accurately calculate phantasm DPS?

My only observation from Summon Phantasm on Kill are that with higher level on gem Phantasm stay longer (have a longer duration) then when SPoK is level 1.

Can SPoK taunt enemies? Meaning when Phantasm hit something that those targets will be occupied with Phantasm and not player? Herald of Agony seem to be able to make some bosses more occupied with minion (crawler) instead of player.


//RexyCat

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Retrothopter schrieb:

I was just trying to wrap my head around this when noticing inconsistencies between soulwrest and spectre supported phantasm DPS. Does this mean PoB is unreliable at the moment? How can I accurately calculate phantasm DPS?

As far as I can gather from posts made by GGG and openarl (both before and after starting at GGG), Soulwrest phantasm dps is currently working perfectly in PoB.

For calculating phantasm dps when linked to spectres, you'd be best off with a workaround. Create a separate group with Raise Zombies instead of Raise Spectre and the same supports, be sure to also assign the group to the correct itemslot. Then set the level of the Raise Zombie gem in PoB to the level of your Summon Phantasm on Kill gem. Here you will have to account for support bonus levels manually, so if you have the gems in an item with +2 to socketed support gems you need to set the Raise Zombies gem 2 levels higher. This is not needed for bonuses to minion/intelligence/all socketed gems, those work just fine as is.

Hope this is clear, it's a bit of a mess.