Fortify Support Gem v Champion's Fortitude Node...?

So the Champion ascendancy for the Duelist has the Fortitude node granting permanent Fortify and we all know there is also a support gem that gives Fortify as well.

The Fortify support gem also gives damage to whatever skill it's linked to.


I thought I was making a solid choice by taking Fortitude but if it's only a defensive gain wouldn't the support gem[with the damage increase] be the better choice or am I missing something?

I'm trying to find pro's for Fortitude but I'm really close to spec'ing out of it and slotting the support gem back into my Leap Slam but does Leap Slam really need a damage boost, not necessarily.
Do I slot it in my 5-6 link setup with Dual Strike? I don't want to lose my endurance on stun and Brutality seems to be a significant help thus far.

Any suggestions?

Increase damage and more damage works different.

Lets say you got a weapon with 100 damage..

25% increase = 125 damage
25% more = 125 damage

But lets add all damage from links gear and talent tree, now you got 1000 phys damage..
25% more should = 1250
25% increase should me 1025

So more multiply your current damage and increase will always go back to your weapon with 100 damage.

So early on they are equally strong, but the more damage the more insane/laughable depending on wich you add.

My understanding for the reason to attach Fortify to Leap Slam is purely for the defensive attribute. Are you using Leap Slam to actually attack mobs?

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Melychath schrieb:

My understanding for the reason to attach Fortify to Leap Slam is purely for the defensive attribute. Are you using Leap Slam to actually attack mobs?

Thats because fortify got "increase damage" so the gem offers no damage as you get more damage, if fortify would have more damage then it would be used with attacks.

I would definitely say the ascendency is worth it. For once you have it always, independent if you leap slamed recently, or whatever, so it helps for instance with traps as well. Also takes away the need to constantly slam at enemies. Takes time and prevents you from causing dmg in that time. Also you could combine it with perserverence which grants you onslaught if you have fortify. So with the ascendency you have both permanently. I really like it on my champion. Also the question if the fortify increased dmg mod would be better,considering you have a gem slot free, you have so many other gems you can link, like added melee dmg, maim etc that all give you a better choice than this bit of increased dmg. If you would ever care how much dmg your leap slam does.

The passive doesnt seem worth it to me. Id use leap slam. The two ascendancy pts could be better used somewhere else...not to mention you usually need to keep moving since you should be killing fast...so why not just attach it to a ms skill and keep the party going.

Thanks for the replies guys.
I'm equally torn and yes the thought was to spec out of Fortitude in order to use those points elsewhere in the Asendancy. Currently I'm at Fortitude of course and into Conqueror with the points from Uber lab set for Worthy Foe.

Surely 'Inspirational' isn't terrible or a complete waste right?
I assume the potential damage increase is ok [inc'd v more as usual] and the movement speed would be a nice bonus as well. My initial thought was to use the points for Fortitude to hit Inspirational and then add the Fortify gem back to my Leap Slam.



What's really intrigued me now though is the perm Onslaught option.
I'm only level 81 so I'd have to look my tree over to see where I could cut enough points.
I went towards Shadow to start, grabbing the gem slot for my Dual Strike and the top half of the sword nodes nearby, as well as the health on the way. Then I went left into Marauder basically into the health nodes near his starting point and then up to the big Scion health wheel which I'm finishing up, 2 nodes left.
It equates to 4.2k health, ~6k armor & evasion, resists are fine, and I've switched to a Tabula b/c one dropped the other night; I could be closer to 4.5k health & 7k+ armor with my normal chest piece.
Dual Scaeva's are holding up nicely but I got some Rapier's I'm trying to craft up.

My build's nothing special and I'm into T6 maps with very little resistance; one Zana mission waxed me at the boss, my fault for not noticing my flask charges.
I feel Inspirational would add a nice punch to my offense but I'm probably wrong.

Inspirational is weak as ascendant and would be fantastic in the talent tree.

Increase damage will always go back and multiply your weapon before anything else was added.

More damage will multiply your current weapon damage.

And hold your hat!
Monsters take increase damage will straight up multiply the damage monsters are taking.

So increase damage is good to build up a nice base damage wich you then want to multiply with as much more as possibly wich you then want to multiply with monsters take increase.

And to achieve most damage you want to build up a nice base phys and multiply it, then convert to ele and build up a nice base of that and then multiply it and then add monsters take increase.


I mean then you can convert to something else and get more base and then multiply it all again, but its hard because it all cost space both in the tree and items, so you will natural pay in less health.

I like your explanation of inc'd v more when it comes to damage.
I've watch 20+ videos and I know more is better but I still don't understand why...and I have to understand ya know, I have to.

Hrimmburn Gloves, for example, converting 50% of phy to cold.
I think I get that in a simple way; if I have 100 phy damage then with those gloves I'd do 50 phy & 50 cold but still a total of 100 damage total right?
So any skill/gem that affected cold damage would increase the 50% portion that the gloves converted?

I'll use a skill/gem that grants 10% more "cold" damage for the example:
1. I assume one would have to be dealing some form of that element damage to begin with in order to get
any type of bonus/benefit?
2. It would boost the coverted cold portion of my damage.
3. What about something like 6-16 cold damage to attacks, does that literally turn into 7-17 or because
of the damage formula it actually equates to a much bigger gain down the line?

I sincerely want to understand this.
I really enjoy this game and I feel I'm missing a lot because I don't quite understand it as well as I feel I should and I love this side of a game. It's like a puzzle to me and all these more's and inc's are the pieces.
I see/hear about these 400k+ or 1mil DPS builds and I look at my poultry 45k and hang my head.

This whole damage thing is like a well layered cake and the better I understand the individual layers then the better of a chef I could be.

Without taking conversion now into consideration, its kinda like:

flat dmg (like +x to attack dmg) * (1 + sum of all dmg increase of that kind of dmg) * ( 1 + sum of all more dmg multipliers you deal) * ( 1 + sum of enemies take more dmg multipliers)


so lets say you have 100 cold spell dmg
an item that grants +100 cold dmg to spells

makes 200 flat cold dmg

20% increased cold in amulet and 30% on your weapon

200 * 1.50 = 300

then you have 30% more cold dmg

300 * 1.30 = 390

and due to something, you have enemy takes 20% increased dmg

390 * 1.20 = 468 cold dmg

in case i am wrong, just shoot me :p