[3.7] Ahfack's Crimson Cyclone | Shaper FULL Life Kill Vid | 100% Pure Phys | All Content | PoBs

Decisions decisions.... :(

@Ahfack - let's say due to cost of disfavor...what other axe would closely compare? a rare 5l/6l (although not keen on that)? For me it's a cost thing but also don't want to lose out on dps or what the mechanic around this build is built on. I'm a noob so don't want to contradict the build in a sense...or have some further input on how these mechanics and the alternatives work

The important point missed here is that between those two weapons, you get a build viable to beat all the content the game has to offer, I also went Starforge because its cheaper and packs a punch, I get my onlaught effect 24/7 and 100% bleed chance thanks to the 80% in the tree and the vulnerability curse 20%. I might do an investment with the totem but I am using khaoms and that leaves me without much room for the sockets.

So in a nutshell...both weapons will clear ALL content of the game...budget allowing go axe, otherwise go sword

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Stinkving3r schrieb:

Decisions decisions.... :(

@Ahfack - let's say due to cost of disfavor...what other axe would closely compare? a rare 5l/6l (although not keen on that)? For me it's a cost thing but also don't want to lose out on dps or what the mechanic around this build is built on. I'm a noob so don't want to contradict the build in a sense...or have some further input on how these mechanics and the alternatives work

There's been guys on here doing shaper with a kitavas feast lol

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Stinkving3r schrieb:

So in a nutshell...both weapons will clear ALL content of the game...budget allowing go axe, otherwise go sword

Correct

Other question...can one use Doryani's belt whilst saving for The Retch?

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Stinkving3r schrieb:

Other question...can one use Doryani's belt whilst saving for The Retch?

Sure, however I'd recommend an affordable stygian vise first

I'm considering using a 6L (belly or bronn's?) for AW instead of Kaom's Heart. I really like having Immortal call for those random near death experiences. If I did, about how much life difference would there be and what gems would be good to link with AW as a 6L?

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Ahfack schrieb:

Reposting from last page so it doesn't get looked over:

Hey guys! Mobile today, so can't contribute too much, only what I see at face value.

If you want to use a Starforge, then use a Starforge and keep it moving. This has already been discussed in the thread many times and is in the FAQ.

As far as calculating everything in PoB: Not exactly accurate with this build. There will always be theory results and actual applied results.

Also, the Ruthless bleed stacks from our totem isn't mentioned at all. In fact, looking at the character sheet on my phone that was used for calculating dmg, you don't even use AW Totem at all! You are no longer comparing Disfavour/Starforge on THIS build, but your build. My build doesn't only use cyclone on bosses, but a combination of Cyclone and AW. AW totem is extremely useful for bosses, and is discussed multiple times; in the thread and in the video. Our cyclone bleed stacks are not what matter as much on shaper, but our Totem's Ruthless bleed stacks.

If we have 100% chance to bleed with our cyclone, then our totem has 75%, due to no chance to bleed support gem. Every 3 hits is a ruthless hit, with a 75% chance to build a ruthless bleed stack in conjunction with crimson dance. With Starforge, the chance for a ruthless hit to build a bleed stack is lower. You can calculate this in PoB all you want, but this part has many variables and will never reflect real world application.

Also, shaper isn't the only content in the game. The real-world 100% uptime of FREE onslaught we gain from our axe nodes is very nice during mapping, and if your clear speed is optimal, you often have onslaught up when you are fighting a boss as well.

As stated in the guide, this was made in standard. Axe is 2.5ex, Starforge is 3ex in standard - Check for yourself. There are a lot more axes floating around on standard than starforges, thus making them cheaper overall. In league, more people farm shaper because many would consider him easier than Uber Atziri. Isn't it funny we measure dick size in this game on PoB in shaper DPS when he's not even the hardest boss in game? hahaha :)

In conclusion:

Starforge is a great sword, and plenty of other builds showcase that. If you'd like to use a starforge, use a starforge - However I prefer Disfavour. Consider me an axe man I guess :). I made this build specifically with a disfavour in mind.

You're making a conjectured claim with no supporting evidence. Mercurially stating that there's too many variable to gage real world performance is comical. Do not pretend that the math isn't easy to do with ruthless AW included - but since you seem to believe that AW (whose damage is based principally off of your weapon's damage, and we've already established that Starforge does more damage) will make the difference, we'll run the numbers for it as well and include them.

Again, Shaper is being used, not because of relative difficulty, but because it is one of the only fights in the game where bleed DPS has a chance to even make a difference, if we ignore this fact, then Starforge is just outright better with no math necessary.



TL;DR: Unsurprisingly, Starforge is better. More's the point - you'll get more reliable damage out of AW if you use Bloodlust instead of Ruthless, regardless of which weapon you choose or your % chance to bleed by virtue of not having to wait for bleed to stack each time you drop a totem.

The inescapable truth is that Starforge is a 724 DPS weapon and Disfavour is a 613 DPS weapon. This 18% damage gap is only roughly abridged by the +2 to supports on Disfavour (effectively making it a ~660-670 DPS weapon, depending on the supports used bringing the gap to ~10% in favor of Starforge), and at the attacks speeds achieved on this build the 25% extra bleed chance on Disfavour is effectively a non-player for affecting downrange DPS, both for Cyclone and for ruthless AW. Also Starforge has 100 flat life on it. ONE HUNDRED FLAT LIFE. The only reasonable argument for Disfavour is that with 100% chance to bleed, you can use Haemophilia's to ensure that all corpses explode, making this slightly more HC friendly. I'd still take 100 flat life.

And since you seem to be hung up on "real world application," the truth is that for 99.9% of content, bleed doesn't matter at all. Stuff is dying so quickly to this much physical damage that figuring partial percentages of damage on the merits of bleed DPS is actually ridiculous. The build is also moving so quickly that you'll have onslaught from the moment you kill your first rare monster for the rest of the map - the onslaught node in the axe wheel is not providing any measurable real world benefit to that end either.

In conclusion:

Starforge is better. Starforge does more DPS. Starforge has life on it. The price of both a 6L Starforge and a 6L Disfavour at the 90th percentile DPS on standard is identical. The price of a 6L Starforge is significantly less in league. The only reason to use a Disfavour instead is "I like axes/I like the lore of Disfavour." Which is fine - but don't tell people that Disfavour is better: It is not. Starforge is better.

Hey,

I'm playing this build in Abyss atm and got a question about the amulet choice.
There are currently no +1 curse Daresso's on trade, but there are +1 curse Carnage hearts.
So, the question is: do i go for a regular Daresso or a +1 curse Carnage heart? :)

Thx in advance ;)