[3.14] Flame Golem 101 - Complete Guide To Golemancy, ✔️All Bosses Down, ✔️Necro, ✔️Elementalist
" The AoE damage overlaps. This is true for everything in the game as far as I'm aware. Projectile damage can't shotgun, but AoE can overlap. However, it sounds like you aren't fully investing into the flame golem, so your charge recovery on Magma Ball won't be that great, so you're probably fine going for overall damage between the 3 abilities, rather than focusing on Magma Ball like a full Flame Golem build would. Zuletzt bearbeitet von Shiverwarp#6758 um 05.01.2018, 23:02:16
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" Hello :) With high level char, good gear and 5-6x harmonies Necromancer ascendancy nodes gives roughly 20% more damage to all minions. Thats same as 4+1 Golems which ends up also as 20% more total minion damage. However Necro has lots of defensive and utility nodes. It has better base to be customized for own playstyle. You can go full block, cast manual Offerings to boost your own movement speed even use other minions with Golems. I have done lots of mixing in Pob with necro, ele with 4-6 Golems mixing different types with 9x Harmonies but have not found mix that provides high enough total damage boost to run ele or mix of Golems. After certain point adding "increased" damage from different sources like Harmonies just wont increase minion damage that much compared to the cost. " Hi and gz on Bisco ^^ For the armor i'm running 2r2g2b as I'm lazy grinder and still poor in league XD. Its good and cheap entry level armor that loses about 20% total damage compared to better and more expensive colors. 2r1g3b is gives best DPS when using totem to trigger Elemental Equilibrium for letting the damage go through. 3r1g2b is best for lazy playstyle when totem is not up all the time, as it deals more damage to mobs with high elemental resistance. New items are pretty hard to add to default guide as they are heavily rng based and their supply / prices can be extremely shifting. If you want to try newest combination you can check my league char : Flame_Gollums_Precious I'm running heavily modified version using 4x Golems, 3x Tukohama Vanguards and 1x Animate Guardian. I'm not using Victarios shield but rather doing max block with spell block shield, with storm burst -> cast when channeling -> desecrate -> bone offering. This combo applies both EE and keeps Bone Offering up as long as I press it. Build still has only 2x buttons which are shield charge and the Storm Burst. This variant has been extremely safe as it runs -75% Temp Chain, 75%/75% block and has high EHP. Golems clear trash mobs in few volleys and TVs melt bosses in few seconds. Animate Guardian applies second curse, slows enemies even more and heals Specters 6% second, so I don't have to use non-ES items like "Skullhead" to keep them alive. I'm very interested to hear if you have found any in interesting ideas / items for the build ^^ " Hey and thanks for support ^^ Yep, the 600% increased crit really starts to show compares to their low base crit (5%). The specs are by no means bad, and I recommend trying them with the Golems. Tukohama Vanguards especially really complement Golems clearspeed with their excellent single target damage. The default build is safe and proven, and provides great base for creating own mix of skills and minions. The league is minion playground after all and build can be shifted to the way of the items that you can find ;) " " Hey and great answer :) The damage really overlaps and shotguns in that manner. I have been seeing lots of mixing Specs and Golems in other threads, but it seems like gimping both in the way its done there. Golems even with high level and 6l item with just 2x harmonies do very little damage as their cooldown will be terrible, Specs are losing valuable damage jewels and player 4 links in the helmet. More optimal way to do the mix should be running high number of Harmonies to let Golems cast magma orbs as often as possible. With high level and enough Harmonies, Golems can easily replace Solar Guards as they have nearly identical moves, but 1,5x aggro range with Primordial Might gem compared to SGs. Primordial Might was great addon as it really fixed Golems terrible AI. If GGG ever releases aggressive AI jewel for Spec, SGs will be almost identical to FGs. As Spec slot wont get wasted on some SG + TV combo, the build can be mixed with 3x Tukohamas Vanguards just to kill rares / bosses. TVs do extremelty high damage even in 4 link if using Soul Weaver and high level summons. Their trash mob clear speed is however terrible, so mixing them with Aggressive trash clearing Golems makes for best combination imho. [3.12] Flame Golem 101 - Complete Guide To Golemancy, All Bosses Down, Necro, Elementalist https://tinyurl.com/y8k9fa2f Zuletzt bearbeitet von mika2salo#7776 um 06.01.2018, 05:18:33
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Hello mika2salo and everybody,
I decided to play this build in the abyss league and so far I can say, this is the second best build under my play time in POE (~2300 hours). Very good guide, very detailed and understandable! I would appreciate if you take a look into my account and review it... maybe you find some mistakes... I have 2 questions about this build: 1, For the animate guardian weapon I decided to use https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/The_Tempestuous_Steel, because the new abyss jewels have hinder mods, so maybe the +30% elemental penetration better option? 2, You mention the Infernal Mantle and my question is, this armour mods (inc. fire dam + chaos dam + spell dam on low mana) affect the golems too, not only me? If so, this armour will provide better damage for the golems? What is count as "low mana"? Mine atm is 305 out of 1131. Thanks. |
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@szmegma Low Mana is the same as low health = below 35%
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" OMG, I read this post and 1 minute later i got a biscos in a Zana lvl 5 mission. My skin of the loyal is 3r 2b 1r with empower lvl4 and summon flame lvl 21 gems. The dps is awesome. Zuletzt bearbeitet von kasEz#2092 um 06.01.2018, 10:46:01
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"Actually, no. One of the nice things about slotting CWDT-ImmortalCall is that you can swap CWDT for Increased Duration and tank the Shaper Slam with it. For the Chimera fight, Endurance Charges combined with Increased Duration will give you ~2 seconds of invulnerability, which is enough to clear most if not all the smoke clouds. "Exactly my point. Block requires you to build around it and in some cases make sacrifices to do so. Rumi's may not always be up. With Rainbowstrides, you're potentially giving up an extra 100 ES or 100 Life on a good rare. Rare amulet tends to mean less stun immunity. A defensive shield is a major cut in DPS. I'm not saying these are bad sacrifices, but block/Bone Offering, like most other defensive tech in this game, is not free. Nor is it the be all and end all of defense. "This is inaccurate. Elemental immunity allows you to skip basically all minion survivability nodes, which means more passive tree flexibility (more EHP, more DPS, etc.). "As far as pure golem builds go, ELE is already more or less an equal choice. Since 3.0, Necro Golems+Spectres might be have the edge in softcore. "As noted earlier, I do not believe your Elementalist tree is optimized, which is why you don't see much difference. As such, the info you're passing to players may not be entirely correct unfortunately. I don't mean to be rude, but going by your own posts earlier in this thread, you haven't actually played as Golementalist outside of limited testing based off of your NEC setup. I highly recommend giving it it a more extended look to get a better picture of the Ascendancy. "Hmm... in order to safely come to that conclusion, I believe we have to be able to reasonably eliminate other possible explanations. Honestly, I really want you to be right about the charges, as it would be one less thing for me to think about. But for accuracy's sake, forgive me for playing devil's advocate for a second. If we assume Magma Ball is on a 3-charge system and 1 cast costs 1 charge (like traps, Frost Wall, etc.), then we can establish an upper limit for number of casts within a given time frame. For example, with 15 Harmonies, Magma Ball cooldown drops to 1.85s (assuming perfect 15% Harmonies). I ran a test in Reliquary to confirm (good call on using this as testing area btw). The test was 96 seconds, so we can expect the lab golem to shoot a maximum of 53 Magma Balls in that span (96/1.85 + 2 charges from being full at the start; rounded down). In my test though, the golem got in 71 shots. The shots seem to come in groups of 3 quite often, as you noted earlier. Towards the end you'll also notice a couple volleys that are interrupted when the golem attempts to move into melee range. While in transit, you'd assume that charges are filling back up and the golem should have a full barrage ready to go for the next round. There's a point though where it shoots 1, moves away, comes back and shoots 1, and pauses before resuming the expected 3-shot volley (around 1m07s). That would seem to indicate that Magma Ball might work through active/inactive states rather than charges. ⚡ Lightning Golems: /1902593 ⛄ Ice Golems: /1914382 Zuletzt bearbeitet von tomatopotato#6384 um 06.01.2018, 11:26:51
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" With so much cooldown reduction, I think you would be more likely to get good results for a comparison if you really up the cast speed so that they will use up the charges (If they are charges) as quickly as possible. Maybe running minion speed, faster casting, and spell echo. If it's active/inactive states (perhaps with a max 3 casts per active state?) then that would mean, with high cast speed, you would get a bunch of volleys at a time, then a period of waiting, then as many volleys as possible again. If it's a charge system, they will use up all the charges quickly, then there will be a wait period before they fire a single ball (Or 2 with spell echo), and a wait period, then single ball, and repeating. The golem AI is not consistent, they won't ALWAYS try to use magma ball no matter what if it's up, sometimes they'll putz around trying to get in melee range even though they could magma ball. You can see this in my gif as well, where it will shoot one magma ball, stop for a little bit, and continue shooting. As for the difference in cooldown you're seeing, I have no idea. I simply took the cooldown from PoB and assumed it to be true. I would try testing with a golem that has no cooldown reduction, and then with more cooldown reduction afterward. If your test is accurate, that means with your cooldown reduction, the cooldown would be around 1.39 instead of 1.85, so base cooldown of around 4.45. This doesn't really match with my tests with no cooldown however, where you can see the golem cast a Magma Ball every six seconds after the initial 3. This makes me suspect that there might be some weirdness with the way cooldown itself is calculated? Zuletzt bearbeitet von Shiverwarp#6758 um 06.01.2018, 13:56:56
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how important is lvl of golem? like is empower worth over another dmg gem?
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" I'll give it another try when I get home. I'm quite certain 1.39 isn't a correct figure though. Just for my sake, POE cooldown with 225% reduction: 100 / (1 + (total reduction/100)) ↓ 100 / (1 + (225/100) = ~31% ↓ ~31% of 6s = ~1.85s (a figure matched by POB) Just as a word of caution, my test doesn't show a cooldown of 1.39. It merely shows 71 shots in 96 seconds. What conclusions we draw from that are a different matter. At any rate, it does indicate that it's probably not a normal 3 charge system (if it's a charge system at all). If it is indeed a charge system, then I believe it indicates that each successful cooldown grants more than 1 charge in return. If not, then it is either active/inactive states where golems fire balls based on their cast speed or some other non-charge based system. Also of note is that the golem (with 0 Harmony) sometimes only fires 2 shots to start before settling into the 1 per 6s pattern. Another oddity that I can't seem to reconcile with a 3-charge system. ⚡ Lightning Golems:
/1902593 ⛄ Ice Golems: /1914382 |
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" I was just saying that your test would suggest that 1.39 is the cooldown of the magma ball if it used a cooldown system. 71 Magma Balls = 96 seconds / COOLDOWN + 2 Magma Balls 69 Magma Balls = 96 seconds / COOLDOWN COOLDOWN (69 Magma Balls) = 96 seconds COOLDOWN = 1.39 seconds per Magma Ball It cannot be that each cooldown grants more than one charge according to my testing already: https://gfycat.com/NeedyWeepyGossamerwingedbutterfly Or else they would be firing more than one Magma Ball after the initial 3. I would say there isn't really enough data to say whether it's a problem with the way the golems are receiving the cooldown reduction, or whether they are using a unique system that we haven't seen elsewhere in PoE. My testing with zero cooldown golems seems to match exactly with a Charges + cooldown system, but your test with very extreme amounts of cooldown reduction doesn't match the scaling of what we expect from what we know about how cooldown reduction works in PoE. So it's either a problem in the method the golems make use of the cooldown reduction (Charges, or active states etc) or a difference in the way the cooldown itself is calculated, perhaps some complication with multiple sources of cooldown reduction. Or are we sure that the golems aren't actually using the "Golem Skills have (20-30)% increased Cooldown Recovery Speed" from the harmonies? The 1.39 second cooldown would mean a total CDR of 332%, or an average of 22% CDR per jewel you have equipped, which falls within the CDR of the stat we say only affects the rate at which the character can cast the golem. This theory isn't very likely, as with 15 of them, I'd expect closer to 25% cooldown. But if we take into account that the CDR might have been a bit higher in actuality, but the testing resulted in lower Magma Balls than ideal because of AI issues (In your video they do wander around a decent amount at the end) we might expect around 360-375% CDR, which fits better. First time I regret not having a testing character on standard! Perhaps try to get exactly 100% CDR, one set for the "Golem skills" and one set for "Golems have", and then test if they fire their first volley, then settle into a 3 seconds per magma ball pattern? Now, I never personally saw only 2 shots before settling into the 1 shot per 6 seconds during my testing. I messed around in the area of the gif for a long time, but only made the gif out of the footage of one "full recharge" just for sake of brevity in an example. Did you wait the full 18 seconds? Or was this with a freshly summoned golem? Perhaps freshly summoned only start with 2 charges rather than 3? It does make me wonder if there is some sweetspot in cooldown where you can self re-summon golems so that Magma Ball is always being cast. The golem AI is a bit spotty though. You can see in the first few moments of the gif that the golem sits there for a moment before attacking again, but I'm pretty sure that it's a target acquisition problem because it was firing from near max range. If I still had my character in Standard, and had that perfect spot in Reliquary like in my gif, I would do the following to exhaustively test magma ball cooldown behaviour:
Spoiler
All testing should be done where golem is permanently at range and has no possible pathing options to reach melee range. Also using Primordial Might to ensure no variance from requiring user attack commands. For each test: 1. How many casts over a certain time period. 60 seconds seems fine. 2. Record what happens when moving golem far enough away to recharge. Wait various time periods 3. How long it takes for a full "volley" 4. How many balls in a full volley 5. Do we see the same "Volley into 1 cast every x seconds" behaviour? 6. Any variance for extended periods attacking 7. How many Magma balls they use immediately after being summoned Test Baseline Behaviour (No Cooldown Reduction, No increased cast speed) Unlinked golem, no harmonies, no eminence, no auras Test High Cast Speed Behaviour (No Cooldown Reduction, High cast speed) Golem linked to faster casting + minion speed, no harmonies, several eminence, haste aura Confirm Which Cooldown Stat Affects Golems Unlinked Golem, Harmonies with exactly 100% total "Golem Skills have (20-30)% increased Cooldown Recovery Speed" , No eminence, No auras Here try to use only 4 Harmonies, so that we have the least amount of the other stat. Unlinked Golem, Harmonies with exactly 100% total "Golems have (10-15)% increased Cooldown Recovery Speed" , No eminence, No auras Here try to use the most amount of Harmonies, so that we have the highest amount of the other stat. If the other stat is having an effect, we will see more total casts than expected. Observe Effects of High Cooldown Reduction Unlinked Golem, 15 harmonies with the highest stat of the cooldown stat confirmed in previous tests, No eminence, no auras Observe Effects of High Cast Speed and High Cooldown Reduction Golem linked to faster casting + minion speed, 15 harmonies with the highest stat of the cooldown stat confirmed in previous tests, Eminence in remaining jewel slots, haste aura Zuletzt bearbeitet von Shiverwarp#6758 um 07.01.2018, 09:27:09
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