[2.6] SignalShot™ CI Full Ele Conversion TS/Barrage / Shaper & Uber Deathless / with video!

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_Saranghaeyo_ schrieb:

@stred/Dice I think for stred that is the expected result of the PoB file for him, because he is focusing more on flat Lightning damage (including Wrath) with his setup. So you will actually see "higher dps" with Death Opus rather than BT.

Stred if hypothetically you had Hatred on and flat Phys (just test and change?) You will see more damage with BT. I test Wrath when I was playing in Standard with Opus, honestly I still prefer Hatred, not being able to consistently shatter is a little scary and if you are abiding by Dice's original analysis that for Harbinger Opal > Diamond > Steel, and Opus Steel > Diamond > Opal then when you get more flat Phys Hatred is still comparable tooltip to Wrath.

To add,

Dice your setup is out of this world and you have literally 200 more increased physical damage than most high end versions of this same build. In nearly all other setups, the power of hatred, PPAD, added fire damage from rings and flat physical will be vastly weaker and is the reason why opus will give BT a run for it's money.

BT+PPAD+Hatred and a lot of physical increased damage from jewels is going to be insanely strong but opus+PPAD+hatred without a lot of physical increased damage is going to hit like a wet noodle. Well, really no one should be using PPAD hatred on opus, theyd be using wrath and added light anyways.
There are very few setups where hatred+ppad outperforms wrath+added light or similar.


Try running the numbers on lower end gear sets and you will see how much weaker the above mentioned scalars are. There are so few situations where T1 flat on ring will outdo even T2 light even when you are using hatred.

i would like to thank Dice for taking the time to test my thoughts!

i also agree with the most _Saranghaeyo_ and Nephalim said..

4 things:

1. tooltip damage not counting diamond flask it's a problem because with low crit bows as chin sol gives way more dmg than high crit as brood twine

2. wise oak = 40% light and fire pen (+13% light pen from tree)

3. i play this build as budget as it can be.. so yeah

budget = wrath/hot and scale light dmg as much it can be for example this ring: not perfect for this buid in general but for me its awesome!

4. in my calculation i also use elem. weakness lvl20 in a cwdt setup



/edit
@_Saranghaeyo_ hatred and hoa as you have guessed in my setup with brood twine give together less dmg than wrath+hot -- because of the light pen i guess?

edit probably not because of the light pen. but because i have all lighting dmg everywhere.. gem setup etc.

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Nephalim schrieb:

To add,

Dice your setup is out of this world and you have literally 200 more increased physical damage than most high end versions of this same build. In nearly all other setups, the power of hatred, PPAD, added fire damage from rings and flat physical will be vastly weaker and is the reason why opus will give BT a run for it's money.

Fair point. Let's try Opus again, this time with HoT/Wrath and Level 21 Added Lightning in the barrage links (Barrage-Ele Focus-WED-Added Lightning-P2L-Slow Proj):

Hideout with Golem and Auras:



With Golem, Auras, Flasks, and 4 Power Charges:



The dps versus shockable bosses should be around:

136,473 x 12 x 1.5 x 1.5 x 1.3 = 4,790,202

The 1.3 multiplier (which is a rough approximation) accounts for running Wise Oak and the fact that the Vinktar penetration is much more of a dps boost because the lightning damage accounts for around 73% of the total damage. As before the actual dps is higher because the Diamond Flask is not being factored into the equation.

Granted the tree could use some tweaks to optimize for Opus (changing some of the phys scaling nodes to WED nodes, since I don't take Forces of nature) and some of the jewels would benefit from swapping the phys damage affixes to damage/proj damage affixes, but I don't anticipate that this will make a huge difference overall - maybe 5-10% more damage. However, speccing into some of the lightning damage nodes that come with penetration could make a big difference - I'll check that out a little later.

Bottom line is that indeed Opus can be a powerhouse with the right set-up :). I still have to test the Lightning penetration gem too. I'll see if I can come up with a much more optimal set up and well compare the calculations by hand with what poB tells us.

Incidentally, here's the above hideout set-up with Thunderfist:



I lose 12% increased attack speed but gain 1-100 lightning damage - I gain more from the flat lightning damage because I have a lot of attack speed scaling on jewels and on rings. The upside to Thunderfist is that it can save exalts if you don't wish to get a linked Opus, or reserve those links for some beastly Ranged Totem set-up. Whether thunderfist is a serious option remains to be seen.

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JoopO schrieb:

Hi guys, which aura setup is best for this build. I'm seeing people using HoI and HoA or HoI and Hatred. Any advice?

With skyforth , Disciple + Wrath/hatred + HoI

With/o Skyforth Disciple + HoI + HoT

Thanks for all the testing but could i get any tips/answers for my questions?
I got a reply from stred_ that helped me a little, since i tested the build with lowish gear.

So now i would like to hear what u guys think about investing that 90~ EX to get the best possible outcome in Legacy

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_Saranghaeyo_ schrieb:

@stred/Dice I think for stred that is the expected result of the PoB file for him, because he is focusing more on flat Lightning damage (including Wrath) with his setup. So you will actually see "higher dps" with Death Opus rather than BT.

Stred if hypothetically you had Hatred on and flat Phys (just test and change?) You will see more damage with BT. I test Wrath when I was playing in Standard with Opus, honestly I still prefer Hatred, not being able to consistently shatter is a little scary and if you are abiding by Dice's original analysis that for Harbinger Opal > Diamond > Steel, and Opus Steel > Diamond > Opal then when you get more flat Phys Hatred is still comparable tooltip to Wrath.

Inuitively the Opus ranking seems very reasonable(steel>diamond>opal): When I played around with some usable rings to replace valyrium (for quicksilver->Kiara's in bossfights for example), tis was suprisingly not the case. The best dps gain was from opal's with T1 lightning flat (slightly better than contempt-crafted steel ring). The setup which I used was wrath-discipline as auras, and this skill tree.

poeurl.com/bg0y

The tree is basically a signalshottree cut at lvl 93 but with the ligthning pen - cluster. The dpsgain for those 3 points is roughly the same as the 5pointer for "forces of nature", if the accuracy gain through +20 dex is neglected.
___________


As for my character progression: haven't changed my gear for a while, not counting a divine on the brinerot's. Wanted to replace this chestpiece
for some time now. Somehow didnt feel like spending a lot of currency on a ok-ish rolled 820-850 ES chest and took a bit of a gamble instead with purchasing a metacraftable 936 ES regalia for 10Ex. If everything works out, it could mean a difference of 4 passive points compared to my current one - imo worth the cost.

The next steps would be to 6l and successfully craft that chest+get two new rings.

Now there are two things I'm somewhat confused about:

a) what are your thoughts about this belt I'm using:
?
I got pretty lucky with essencecrafting it, but am missing the flaskmods a bit. Would you consider getting a belt with something like dual res + flask effect duration + crafted wed instead?

b) how are you managing the resistances? I got 77%-74%-77% (uncapped) in merc right now - without the flasks but might drop couple of gear pieces with high res. Is it ok to drop some res. (like 62%-60%-62%) because of wise oak?

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Heisenbergi schrieb:

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JoopO schrieb:

Hi guys, which aura setup is best for this build. I'm seeing people using HoI and HoA or HoI and Hatred. Any advice?

With skyforth , Disciple + Wrath/hatred + HoI

With/o Skyforth Disciple + HoI + HoT

even without skyforths i think its better to spent the 3 skill points for the charisma cluster+enlighten lvl3 to run hatred/wrath and 1 herald for power charge generation..

if have death's opus i seriously suggest to invest in lightning damage so :

wrath+herald of lightning+added lighntning dammage support in your links

@juerk Ahhh that's even more interesting actually. So Elemental damage focus completely with Opus could be the way to optimize. I've been sitting here all along thinking that patching with Steel and physical focus (Hatred HOA) was good for Opus but Elemental could have higher ceiling then.

About Belt, that belt is insanely good, covering STR while also providing insane WED and ES. I'm not gonna tell you give that up, but I do think, based on the current state of the tree where we don't have any Reduced Flask Charge on it, that 20% available as an affix on a belt is very valuable. Goal ofc should always be refill Vinktar before duration is over, it's just so much easier to do. I plan my early league around a Retch (helps a lot) and late game around Flask belt pretty much.

About Resists yeah next iteration or league I play this, pretty much not paying attention to trying to Merciless Cap, 50 Flask Effect provide 52% with 2-3 uses at that duration... I'm building my Resists around 114 all next time so I'm Elemental Weakness capped prior to Dying/Vinktar. Can't 100% trust full uptime of those, even if at late stages it is possible, something can still go wrong I suppose. Bismuth is just so easy to sustain.

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DicemanX schrieb:

Granted the tree could use some tweaks to optimize for Opus (changing some of the phys scaling nodes to WED nodes, since I don't take Forces of nature) and some of the jewels would benefit from swapping the phys damage affixes to damage/proj damage affixes, but I don't anticipate that this will make a huge difference overall - maybe 5-10% more damage. However, speccing into some of the lightning damage nodes that come with penetration could make a big difference - I'll check that out a little later.

Bottom line is that indeed Opus can be a powerhouse with the right set-up :). I still have to test the Lightning penetration gem too. I'll see if I can come up with a much more optimal set up and well compare the calculations by hand with what poB tells us.

Incidentally, here's the above hideout set-up with Thunderfist:

I lose 12% increased attack speed but gain 1-100 lightning damage - I gain more from the flat lightning damage because I have a lot of attack speed scaling on jewels and on rings. The upside to Thunderfist is that it can save exalts if you don't wish to get a linked Opus, or reserve those links for some beastly Ranged Totem set-up. Whether thunderfist is a serious option remains to be seen.

in my setup 5 points for forces of nature is best spent on archiing blows/crackling speed cluster (small difference thought)

also 16% increased Physical Damage with Bows on jewels were far worse than 10% proj.dmg with death'opus and the same with brood twine.


interesting the experiment with thunderfists, i have tried it before after you suggested it but i haven't invested so heavy in lightning damage.. i will try it again.. still in path of building it's equal to a pair of those 15c gloves (accuracy rly helps)

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juerk schrieb:

Now there are two things I'm somewhat confused about:

a) what are your thoughts about this belt I'm using:

?
I got pretty lucky with essencecrafting it, but am missing the flaskmods a bit. Would you consider getting a belt with something like dual res + flask effect duration + crafted wed instead?

b) how are you managing the resistances? I got 77%-74%-77% (uncapped) in merc right now - without the flasks but might drop couple of gear pieces with high res. Is it ok to drop some res. (like 62%-60%-62%) because of wise oak?

forget resists! with wise oak i keep em around 50% in town and i am just fine!

for the belt tough choise.. i woulds sell it for a good price and try to find something with flasks mod + wed + some resist..

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stred_ schrieb:

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Heisenbergi schrieb:

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JoopO schrieb:

Hi guys, which aura setup is best for this build. I'm seeing people using HoI and HoA or HoI and Hatred. Any advice?

With skyforth , Disciple + Wrath/hatred + HoI

With/o Skyforth Disciple + HoI + HoT

even without skyforths i think its better to spent the 3 skill points for the charisma cluster+enlighten lvl3 to run hatred/wrath and 1 herald for power charge generation..

if have death's opus i seriously suggest to invest in lightning damage so :

wrath+herald of lightning+added lighntning dammage support in your links

KK, thx. I got skyforth and legacy Reach. Anyways seen people with Skyforth having Discipline + HoA + Hatred or Discipline + HoA + HoI + CoH + Poachers. Still havent find the reasoning behind these two setup.