Act 5 Avarius boss fight super projectile insta kill too strong

Resists + life = ezy game

Im a soft core player did my fist HC Pokemon league char after the WoA changes and currently Mapping still in HC Pokemon league Bottom line cap your resists and get lots of life remember its HC so overdoing it is a good thing if you want to survive

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L0ukie schrieb:

Resists + life = ezy game

The winning Avarius recipe is having the DPS to maul him down before he could even start doing anything.
No matter the life and resists it's fairly easy to die in the bullet hell phase if you slip, or to get oneshot by his charge-slam (he loves to charge at you before the bullet hell has expired, while you've lost line of sight when hiding behind a statue). Or to get accidentally hit by a guardian and then finished off. In this fight everything hurts. Hard.

In short, it's a fight in which you aren't even supposed to get hit, as everything in it is super high damage telegraphed attacks one shouldn't tank. So you better have the damage to end it quickly, rather than risking to get fucked by a single mistake.
The longer you stay in the fight, the highest the chance to fuck up.

Avarius fight has two glaring downsides:

1. It's the definition of anti-melee design.

2. It's a DPS check.

The overall fight design is well done, but the above mentioned points make it too DPS/build/play style dependent.

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torturo schrieb:

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1. It's the definition of anti-melee design.
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This. None of my ranged chars had any trouble with him. All my melee chars died several times. Nothing new here, POE is the game with the worst melee vs ranged balance of any game I have ever played.

My experience has been that as long as you have good move speed and good attack speed for Innocence, melee is easier than ranged. I find that having both good move and attack speed means rapid reactions to his various tells, which means more free hits and less incoming damage. Being in melee makes his tells particularly easy to see just as he begins them, which even further speeds up reaction time, leading to even more free hits and even less incoming damage.

Also, his laser is easier to avoid when in melee. And, the statues are pretty easy to avoid; just put a totem near Innocence and move around him in ways that don't line you up with Mr. McStoneyFace and his big sword.

Edit & full disclosure: My only hardcore character I lost to Innocence was a melee bleedquaker. I didn't prioritize attack or move speed for that battle, treating it like essentially any other battle in the leveling process. That didn't go particularly well. My experiences suggest that Innocence is the first battle in the game where attack and move speed (both, not just one or the other) make a *big* difference to how the fight goes.

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SisterBlister schrieb:

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torturo schrieb:

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1. It's the definition of anti-melee design.
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This. None of my ranged chars had any trouble with him. All my melee chars died several times. Nothing new here, POE is the game with the worst melee vs ranged balance of any game I have ever played.

I've never had a problem with him on melee characters. You just have to listen to the audio cues, and it makes avoiding some phases like his beam and his slam a lot easier when you're closer to him. If you're just facetanking him that's your own fault, and of course you'll die because the fight is not designed for that.

You may eventually find running around and evading stuff during 95% of the fight "no problem", but in my book it's not ok design wise.

Especially when ranged/casters don't even face this issue. And spend most of their time in actually doing something different from watching the fight from aside. Even have easy times with dodging the clusterfuck of telegraphed attacks, due to their nature and design.

The only worse anti-melee fight I may think of is Hector in the bath house. And I'm not about difficulty or something.

I agree, it's totally unfair to expect the player to be able to react to greatly telegraphed attacks. Why can't I just hold LMB and default attack my way through the game? I don't agree with the design decision that bosses can kill players.

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torturo schrieb:

You may eventually find running around and evading stuff during 95% of the fight "no problem", but in my book it's not ok design wise.

Especially when ranged/casters don't even face this issue. And spend most of their time in actually doing something different from watching the fight from aside. Even have easy times with dodging the clusterfuck of telegraphed attacks, due to their nature and design.

The only worse anti-melee fight I may think of is Hector in the bath house. And I'm not about difficulty or something.

I find Kitava a lot more annoying than Innocence for making it challenging to hit him. He drops those big balls that blast everything nearby, his mines can be a royal pain, and half the time I can't even see what he's doing when I'm in melee range. At least with Innocence I don't have any delayed reactions to what he's doing because I can clearly see everything.

Innocence is all about speed. Speed on both attack and run acts like four extra "more" multipliers for outgoing damage, as well as multiple "less" multipliers for incoming damage. Think of it this way:

If you start swinging 20% faster and swing 20% longer, scoot in 15% faster and scoot out 15% faster, then you kind of get 1.2 * 1.2 * 1.15 * 1.15 more damage. That's a lot of extra damage. There isn't a gem in the game that can hope to match that kind of extra damage output by that point in the game.

You really want faster boots to scoot out when his ball of infinite damage gets laid out anyways, when in melee range.

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EnjoyTheJourney schrieb:

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Definitely AS helps a lot with melee in this fight. Or AW - it brings pseudo ranged abilities to the character, and helps the slower AS builds tremendously.

The root of the problem, and the reason why either high AS or AW (or both) are a must, is because as melee there are ridiculously narrow windows you are able to attack him.
Which drastically prolongs the fight, and the longer it takes the higher chance to put yourself in troubles.

And that's the major issue I'm talking about. As ranged you are able to kite and attack simultaneously, with no penalty. With melee, you are often unable to deal damage even when he's not using any telegraphed attacks - when the guardian is near him and that's what actually happens most of the time.
BTW the guardian's attack is also considered telegraphed and damage corresponds. Guardian poses no threat to ranged.

Yesterday leveled a new toon, SRS.
Damage taken by Avarius himself: 0
Bullet hell phases: 0
Risk factor involved: 0
Longevity of the fight: defined by his invulnerability during summon phases.

A couple of days ago leveled a 2H. Slowness. Pain. A single frame of distraction. A ball in my face. Statue too far away. Hello standard.

It's just a terribly designed fight considering melee.

Kitava is a completely different beast. It's the shittiest boss design in game, but for different reasons.
Anyway, he shits equally over almost any play style and build with few exceptions, so it's "fair".

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torturo schrieb:

The only worse anti-melee fight I may think of is Hector in the bath house. And I'm not about difficulty or something.

Haha, Hector is the stupidest butthead in PoE, always have to run after him. Like why isn't he sheild-charging away completely like tormented spirit?

So A.I., much wow