If the game is supposed to be played slower, it should reward playing slower

During campaign, the game plays like the "vision" for PoE2. Dodging, attacking and not one-shotting everything (unless you play and OP meta build). But in endgame, speed is everything. You need attacks/skills that can clear the whole screen in all directions. If possible, one-shot every rare you see before it can hit you. And then we have breach and delirium, that are time based and only really viable if you kill and walk fast. Talisman also forces you to fight in crowded space, so again: You need to kill fast, otherwise you get swarmed.

Endgame is currently designed around speed, because the PoE1 league mechanics made it to PoE2. Dont get me wrong, I enjoy those, but slow combo play with dodge roles and good positioning is just not viable to clear this content effectively. Furthermore, since you need to clear the atlas worldmap in order to do the quests, you really need to focus on clearing one map after another in order to find citadels etc. This is very time consuming, so playing a fast build is - again - key to success. And having high walk and clear speed is also rewarded the most, because you will clear maps faster, resulting in more loot, which gives you an economic advantage.

So right now there is literally no reason to play this game slow at all. I won't suggest anything other then saying, that the (end)game needs an overhaul and must reward playing slowly more then zooming through maps. Just wanted to point this out.

bro, i just want to be able to engage with the game slower, i don't mind getting less loot or any other drawback.

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AintCare#6513 schrieb:

bro, i just want to be able to engage with the game slower, i don't mind getting less loot or any other drawback.

Spoiler

Deli/Breach don't allow combo based play style to even engage with these mechanics. [feedback]
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3797494

I know, but that's because of how Deli and Breach are designed. They were designed for fast gameplay like in PoE1. PoE2 is supposed to be slower and more engaging, but gets lost when reaching endgame. That needs to change.

Perhaps we need maps where slow and methodical playstyle would be good, or node on the atlas to switch the maps mode to make it "slower and harder" but with much better rewards to compensate for it. I propose this idea to not offend zoomers, but frankly I would just nerf you hard ;D, it's too easy to get absurdly fast right now.

Many builds should be viable of course, but there is no need for millions dps or 200% movement speed.

I agree. If the game is designed for us to play slower characters instead of fast ones, then the rewards should feel equally rewarding.

When some players can clear maps in just 30 seconds while a single warrior takes 2–3 minutes to finish the same map, it creates an imbalance. That’s unfair not only for the players but also for the in-game market.

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AceNightfire#0980 schrieb:

During campaign, the game plays like the "vision" for PoE2. Dodging, attacking and not one-shotting everything (unless you play and OP meta build). But in endgame, speed is everything. You need attacks/skills that can clear the whole screen in all directions. If possible, one-shot every rare you see before it can hit you. And then we have breach and delirium, that are time based and only really viable if you kill and walk fast. Talisman also forces you to fight in crowded space, so again: You need to kill fast, otherwise you get swarmed.

Endgame is currently designed around speed, because the PoE1 league mechanics made it to PoE2. Dont get me wrong, I enjoy those, but slow combo play with dodge roles and good positioning is just not viable to clear this content effectively. Furthermore, since you need to clear the atlas worldmap in order to do the quests, you really need to focus on clearing one map after another in order to find citadels etc. This is very time consuming, so playing a fast build is - again - key to success. And having high walk and clear speed is also rewarded the most, because you will clear maps faster, resulting in more loot, which gives you an economic advantage.

So right now there is literally no reason to play this game slow at all. I won't suggest anything other then saying, that the (end)game needs an overhaul and must reward playing slowly more then zooming through maps. Just wanted to point this out.

Well, it can be done by removing 90%~ of enemies, 95%~ of the power from items & character building, removing trade and adding i-frames during roll.

In other words removing alot of content & grind.

And another problem is that you then remove alot of the replayability and playtime, as Dark souls have a average of 50~ hours, and PoE 1 have deranged amounts. Its a completly different business model, they should instead of leagues have one complete game, 1-3 dlcs over two years & then go for Path of Exile 3.

Were talking a completly different game. I talk about the subject in another thread.



In dark souls III the "allowed-player-power" and "power-creep" is so low that it is possible to defeat the game naked, with your fists only. No need to grind gear at all.

And for a company whose name is Grinding Gear Games that is a big leap to remove item-power & the grind.

"

Grayeye#1799 schrieb:

Well, it can be done by removing 90%~ of enemies, 95%~ of the power from items & character building, removing trade and adding i-frames during roll.

In other words removing alot of content & grind.

And another problem is that you then remove alot of the replayability and playtime, as Dark souls have a average of 50~ hours, and PoE 1 have deranged amounts. Its a completly different business model, they should instead of leagues have one complete game, 1-3 dlcs over two years & then go for Path of Exile 3.

Were talking a completly different game. I talk about the subject in another thread.

Spoiler

"

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3857859

In dark souls III the "allowed-player-power" and "power-creep" is so low that it is possible to defeat the game naked, with your fists only. No need to grind gear at all.

And for a company whose name is Grinding Gear Games that is a big leap to remove item-power & the grind.

I have to disagree with that. You simply can't compare Dark Souls and PoE.

Dark Souls is a game that players usually play 1-3 times. That's it. There's only a handful of players who like play it over and over again.

PoE on the other hand is a live service game and it will be free to play. This game is designed to bring in money constantly, therefore the game must be designed to lure players back into the game periodically. And you don't do that by removing leagues. GGG needs to think about what they really want to achieve. In my opinion, they implemented things like Deli and Breach because they needed content for PoE2 and these mechanics were already ready thanks to PoE1. While I like Deli and Breach, the problem with both of them is - like mentioned above - they favor "zoomers", while a slow warrior will definitely not get much out of these mechanics because he is too slow.

Also, I dont think removing trade is a good idea. There are alot of items ingame that are important for builds, but they are hard to find. Like many unique items for example. Without trade, you couldnt play specific builds that require those items, because it's very likely you will not find it by yourself.

So, what COULD they do? They needed to change certain things:

LESS monsters, but STRONGER Monsters:
- This is needed, because if you get swarmed by 50 monsters at once right now, playing strategically is always a disadvantage. It's better to play a fast and high dps build, so that these 50 monsters don't even touch you. But if monsters would be less but stronger, then actually playing strategically makes sense.
- This also means, you will very likely not one-shot these guys anymore. And if you don't one-shot them anymore, they will very likely get a hit on you if you are not careful. And that can lead to your death quite fast, which stops "zoomers". And since they are stronger, dodging and positioning become more important.

- MORE loot and experience per monster:
- Since fights will now take much longer and we have less monsters, we need MORE loot and experience per monster. Like, taking down a group of monsters should always feel rewarding.
- To solve this, add drop per pack instead of per monster. There's a group of 5 monsters? As soon as you killed the last of the pack, you get a pool of drops, similiar when beating a boss. This feels rewarding and loot doesn't clutter your screen while you are still fighting. It drops when the fight is over. Similiar to the waves in Delirium: When one wave is finished, you get your drops, pick them up and move on to the next fight.

- Remove timer from breach/deli:
- Since there will be less but harder monster encounters, breach/deli also need a rework. That means: Remove the timer, but instead let monsters be stronger the longer the event runs and give players the means to stop the event whenever they feel like monsters are getting out of hand. And with increased difficulty of monsters, you are have increased rarity/quantity.
- Good thing about this is: No matter how fast your build is, at some point monsters will overpower you when you are not careful. A slow but strong build is way better here.

I think just with these suggestions we would solve multiple problems at once:
- combat would start to feel engaging, since even normal monster encounters are meaningful
- it would stop zoomers, because they can't zoom anymore without taking the risk to actually get destroyed
- warriors would now be in a much better position, since slow gameplay is rewarded
- slow and strategic gameplay would be rewarded much more compared to zooming

"

AceNightfire#0980 schrieb:

slow combo play with dodge roles and good positioning is just not viable to clear this content effectively...So right now there is literally no reason to play this game slow at all.

"Slow combo dodge rolls with good positioning" would be a great name for my build if it weren't so long. I call it "The Rolling Pin."

What you mean by "viable" and "effectively" in this context are subjective. To me viable and effective is a build that doesn't make me feel stuck and frustrated - so far I've cleared T3 King, T2 Xesht (got T3 to ~20%), T2 Simulacrum (up to wave 14 in T3), and T2 Olroth and I'm adding a tiny bit of this and that every day so think I'll pretty much be sorted as soon as I can find some f'ing citadels.

As for the "reason" I play like this because I think it's fun as fuck. Definitely a lot more fun than it seems like everyone who is playing the meta is having right now.

Tuning down the speed of mobs and having less "Leeroy Jenkins" attacks would be a good start.