PoE is straddling a weird line of appeal

So I'm going to put some thoughts down here. I'm not the target audience of PoE2, I don't think. I don't like PoE1 at all really with around 200 hours in 10 years, I think gameplay and endgame are straight up badly designed, and I've spent a grand total of $60 on PoE's since 2015, $30 on tabs and $30 to play PoE2. So I'm neither an avid user nor a microtransaction whale.

But I am an ARPG fan. I have played Grim Dawn for 4k+ hours (100% achieves including all hardcore and non achievement achievements if you know what that means lol). Lots of time in D2, TQ, Torchlight2, Last Epoch, D3 & D4 are bad ARPGs (so are most of the cash grab titles in the genre), etc etc etc.

So why does any of that matter? Well, I am a hardcore ARPG fan. Make a good one and I will play it extensively. The niche that GGG PoE design seems to fill (extreme RNG on gear, trade is the only real way and SSF (IE, single player ARPG) is a deeply unbalanced "self imposed challenge", must wipe whole screen aka fast paced one shot or be one shot, as well as the truly awful hide convenience and organization and gear visuals behind a paywall instead of producing a complete game for a fixed price) is one that really narrows down who they can get interested in this game. If I, someone who is already an avid fan of the genre, have zero interest in building or playing this game long term, you're taking an already small market (ARPGs really aren't a huge market to begin with) and further narrowing it down to players who will accept a hard requirement to engage with a very poorly designed trade system in order to have access to a majority of gear and features in the game, a very dull endgame gameplay and loop, and very obnoxious microtransactions (even though they aren't pay to win). It just isn't going to happen long term.

Not that they should go for mass appeal. D3 and 4 did it and they are shit games. But if you can't keep the interest of avid ARPG fans because of the choice to lean on a really poorly implemented trade/gear system and MTX, you are choosing your own "self imposed challenge" in the space of keeping your game alive.

I know there are a core group of people who LOVE PoE1 and dump time and money on it, love the mind numbingly fast pace, love the tedium of tracking trade websites and economy jank and just buying their way to gear and using cookie cutter builds, and love to use the obnoxious term "power fantasy." Great. However, GGG did give a bit of a middle finger to them and say "PoE2 will be different and deal with it" to those people. Even though maps are more of the same PoE1...and really campaign is also trivial as soon as you juice out a weapon and can kill bosses in 5 seconds.

Game design and upkeep, particularly for a live service type game, does need some compromise of appeal.

The game's actual issues are not "oh armour sucks" or "oh divines have no sink" or "oh archmage is op" or whatever else. The game has intrinsic design flaws (features) that really narrow who it can appeal to.

I'm not saying how GGG has done the PoE's is wrong, but it is absolutely, definitively not for me, an avid ARPG fan, and will never be for a huge portion of an already fairly niche market. If GGG is ok with just feeding the PoE1 crowd with seasons and fishing for MTX whales, then ok. But it is a choice to keep your playerbase narrow, and they'll have to kneel and break on their vision of a different PoE2 eventually. And it's already showing signs of cracking.

I do wish them well though. They have made a really cool base game here. But it just won't hold the interest of most ARPG fans, I don't think.

Something in your post boggles me.

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Well, I am a hardcore ARPG fan. Make a good one and I will play it extensively. The niche that GGG PoE design seems to fill (extreme RNG on gear, trade is the only real way and SSF (IE, single player ARPG) is a deeply unbalanced "self imposed challenge", must wipe whole screen aka fast paced one shot or be one shot, as well as the truly awful hide convenience and organization and gear visuals behind a paywall instead of producing a complete game for a fixed price) is one that really narrows down who they can get interested in this game.

Are you talking about PoE1 or PoE2?
Also, a fixed price for the game instead of the current system would kill the game faster than every single mistake GGG could make. It's literally not sustainable to run a live service game only on the box price.
Furthermore, GGG wanted to make a F2P game, so everybody could play, no matter how much money they had.

-Something in your post boggles me.
You're easily boggled.

-Are you talking about PoE1 or PoE2?
Both.

-Also, a fixed price for the game instead of the current system would kill the game faster than every single mistake GGG could make. It's literally not sustainable to run a live service game only on the box price.

That's not what I said. Locking inventory organization and 95% of gear visuals behind a paywall is stupid. Box price for that (basic functionality of a game), MTX for other stuff.

-Furthermore, GGG wanted to make a F2P game, so everybody could play, no matter how much money they had.

Yet the game reaches a point very quickly of being incredibly tedious and unmanageable with what you get for free. And then the price of MTXs are absolutely insane. $400 for xmog and some other minor BS? Costs at least $60 for basic storage space and organization just to play the game, and you have addicts spending literally thousands of dollars on an addiction. It's not the altruistic model you think it is, bud.

I agree with a lot of what you said. I played like 500 hours in PoE2. So I had my share of fun and big parts of the game are really good. However, the cracks are glaringly obvious at this point and, as you write, it comes down to terrible game design choices that are fundamentally flawed and anti-player. And which seem to be part of GGG's "vision".
A lot of it feels like GGG wants people to play the game, but they do not want to let them experience the game. Just think about all the game design choice that actively punish the player for playing the game. It's actually insane.

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The niche that GGG PoE design seems to fill (extreme RNG on gear, trade is the only real way and SSF (IE, single player ARPG) is a deeply unbalanced "self imposed challenge", must wipe whole screen aka fast paced one shot or be one shot

I mean, rares as "ground loot" are highly RNG, but with the PoE1 crafting you can make any item you want, you only need to know how to craft.
Trade is just EZ mode but for nothing really mandatory, so I don't get the SSF-take either.
And regarding clear, sure, most ppl play Zoom Zoom builds, but again, slower builds without screen-wise AoE are viable too.

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Locking inventory organization and 95% of gear visuals behind a paywall is stupid. Box price for that (basic functionality of a game), MTX for other stuff.

Wdym? The only thing ppl should buy for a better experience when they reach endgame are some stash tabs and they are often on sale - below the price you would need to pay for a box price. And the "basic functionality of the game" is already there without any money spent on it.

Gear visuals behind a "paywall"? What the hell are you talking about? How would you make money when not selling them in the store and/or in supporter packs?

MTX for other stuff? What... Pay2Win?

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Yet the game reaches a point very quickly of being incredibly tedious and unmanageable with what you get for free. And then the price of MTXs are absolutely insane. $400 for xmog and some other minor BS? Costs at least $60 for basic storage space and organization just to play the game, and you have addicts spending literally thousands of dollars on an addiction. It's not the altruistic model you think it is, bud.

"quickly"... bruh... most ppl spent around 100 hours before reaching endgame when stash tabs are recommended for better QoL IF you want to play further and like I said, they are on sale really often, so you can get everything you need 20 bucks and not your 60.

Dude, supporter packs have multiple tiers and you don't need to spend hundreds of dollars for "cosmetics". Furthermore, you can get free "cosmetics" in every single league. So even ppl without any money can have shiny characters and shit.

Nobody said that GGG is altruistic, but what you want is just weird and would benefit nobody.
Do you have any idea for how many ppl even the 20-25 bucks on stash tabs is a ton of money? Whales compensate ppl with lower spending so the game can stay free and kept going.